Rutland Manor. Is this the truth behind the legend?

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Carole g
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Rutland Manor. Is this the truth behind the legend?

Post by Carole g » 28 Jun 2009, 13:26

http://www.govegan.com.au/puppies/?p=103



"She also makes the following claim which is against all relevant legislation, “At Rutland Manor we breed our girls back to back and retire them young”.

These poor dogs are not rested between litters a clear violation to the code of practice. I spoke to someone who recently rescued two of Beverley’s dogs

“Both were in a dreadful state, one has some health issues related to over breeding and both have severe psychological problems. When we visited the place in person we were shocked at what we saw and at how very different it was to the kennels glossy website. The state of one of the little girls is just dreadful. She is 8 years old and had her last litter just before we rescued her and her poor little tummy hangs to the ground. She has obviously been bred every cycle since puppy hood. Even after nearly 6 months of tender loving care, she is still terrified of everything”.

Our investigations uncovered sub standard living conditions with no protection from the elements, un-groomed dirty dogs with tight painful mats in their hair. Beverley will tell you she is creating a dog that does not shed, but all dogs shed. The Labradoodle’s hair sheds into its coat and that causes mats which is why this breed requires extensive daily grooming, something Beverley obviously doesn’t have time for.

We also received information from a man who worked on the property for a number of months. He witnessed male dogs “ripping frightened female dogs apart,” very ill dogs giving birth over and over again. One incident that left him stunned and which led to his resignation involved a female puppy only 9 months old being traumatized by a male dog for two days in a small enclosure, “the girl was simply terrified of the male who was quite aggressive with her, in the end Bev hand mated the little girl, it was sickening and cruel, that was it for me, I left that day and have never returned.”

The ploys of “Grandma Beverley” are designed to dupe a well intentioned family into buying a puppy and keeping the engine of cruelty working overtime. Her puppy farm, like all others, is designed purely for profit and not the welfare of the animals."
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Re: Rutland Manor. Is this the truth behind the legend?

Post by MrsAdmin » 28 Jun 2009, 13:51

This nightmare of a puppy factory (previously discussed on UKLA) demonstrates EXACTLY why the Code of Practice on UKLA is so desperately needed and why the public and, particularly, people buying a Doodle puppy need helpful education about what constitutes a conscientious and caring breeder.

Health tested, home socialised, correctly aged breeding = healthy, well adjusted, sociable puppies.

God help all those poor young bitches and their puppies being exploited by the puppy farmers in the UK and abroad just because Doodles are classed as 'high value' dogs.
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Re: Rutland Manor. Is this the truth behind the legend?

Post by mhayhurst » 28 Jun 2009, 14:55

Just a word of caution and circumspection as I had this information emailed to me recently and spent more time than I would like to have done to delve a little deeper.

The text Carole has quoted above comes from the website of Debra Tranter (probably quoting far too much but I doubt if the person in question would object). I've read copious info about and have found it very hard to unravel "the truth". The poster seems to have mixed an awful lot of info together and I am not at all sure she is in any way reliable (some people think, with some justification, that she is a complete nutter). She has acknowledged that her website removes non-supportive comments (simply non-supportive, not necessarily non-compliant). I find the material very suspect. There /appear/ to be more first-hand, independent (well, customers) reports who attest that the allegations against RM are malicious and unfounded than there are to validate the Debra Tranter story.

There were clearly issues over Tegan Park and its closure in Florida - this facility was "owned" by the daughter of Rutland Manor's Beverley Manners who has been very vocal this week in pointing out that they are estranged in a most acrimonious way. If you read the broader material that has been posted recently it would appear to bear out the Rutland Manor POV and she has also made public recent Vet's reports.

Now as I state above I cannot say with any certainty what the true situation is or has been and I am not siding with or against RM (though as has has been posted on this forum previously I am not at all comfortable with the idea of any dog [inc puppy or breeding/pregnant bitch] being shipped half way around the world to a stranger) - simply that I would caution those interested to deepen their research beyond the Debra Tranter material which is questionable at best - as indeed I would with any such stories.

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Bubbarooandemmatoo
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Re: Rutland Manor. Is this the truth behind the legend?

Post by Bubbarooandemmatoo » 28 Jun 2009, 16:28

I feel sick after reading that. :evil:

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Carole g
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Re: Rutland Manor. Is this the truth behind the legend?

Post by Carole g » 28 Jun 2009, 18:28

It is hard to take...but I will stick to the facts.

The following has disappeared from the RM web site and it is contrary to the local law (and UK law). You can find it archived here from the website in 2006. It describes the so called "Australian practices"
http://web.archive.org/web/200602100716 ... tices.aspx

"Rutland Manor breeds its females back to back ( each successive cycle) The reasons for this are twofold.
Firstly - Modern veterinary research indicates that it is healthier for the breeding females themselves, greatly reducing the incidence of uterine cancers.
Secondly - By breeding successive cycles and then retiring the breeding females several years younger than if they skipped a cycle each year, these still-young females have the chance to find a permanent home where they can spend the rest of their lives as the adored single family companion they long to be."



Some bitches are not retired but sold on to be bred further. :(

RM never said how often this "back to back" breeding would be done. :?: I am very well aware of the poor condition bitches get into from successive litters, no chance to recover, just constant whelping and feeding pups can have a terrible toll.

Then there is the whole question of "Guardian Homes" A practice spreading to this country when a naive buyer gets a bitch who is taken off them for several litters (I've heard of four litters in the UK)... this is very different from the usual procedure of ONE litter so that a puppy can be kept by the breeder that most breeders have used in this country. Where is the breeders' responsibility here? They have none of the bother of keeping a bitch and ALL the financial benefits. There is also no stability or security for the bitch who may not even have a home at the end of the agreement as the keeper becomes very disillusioned. The "Guardian Home" scheme could work between the best of breeders and best of buyers but is fraught with difficulties and if too much of the bitch's life is demanded then it will fall apart.

IMHO, the beautiful RM kennels on the RM website are just that, a "pretty" picture ... the reality is still rows of cages. They admittedly look better to me than the 6ft by 3ft cages passed by a local council in this country as accomodation for the whole breeding lives of bitches kept under "Australian practices" by one of the biggest UK breeders. The buyers never see these kennels.

So I hope that the link above from the website of Debra Tranter points to half truths and distortion, I really do, as where RM leads... other breeders follow.




"
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Re: Rutland Manor. Is this the truth behind the legend?

Post by PennyAli » 29 Jun 2009, 07:25

I have not brought a dog directly from Rutland but I have from Tegan Park who has also been dragged into this :( Fidelity came from TP and I had read allot of these types of web pages but if you breed a lot of dogs there are always going to be people you don't get on with. Well this is my first hand knowledge, not he said she said!!!!!

When I got Fi I was worried how she would be, what she would make of my children and living in a family home, well she came out of the airport totally confident full of beans and clean and well groomed, she came home and fitted in straight away like she had always been here, her temperament is outstanding, she loves my children she never had any accidents in the house, she does not moult or trigger allergies with people with allergies to dog hair, in my eyes she IS THE PERFECT DOG she is smaller than a Labrador at 16.5 inches stocky and well built (Nothing like a Poodle) but with a curly coat that does not shed. I cannot thank Angela enough for my wonderful Fidelity. I found Angela to be a kind and generous person nothing like these websites have said, When we got Ruby who came to live with Debbie before Fi came Angela gave us a restricted number of litters we could have and when Fidelity came she was exactly the same, I was told a max number of litters she could have, Angela also made it clear that she wanted Fidelity to know a home environment and have a life not just a kennel environment.

ANGELA THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR LETTING ME HAVE THE MOST WONDERFUL DOG IN THE WORLD FIDELITY

I would also like to point out that many breeders in this country are not what they seam such as ridgeback breeders killing healthy pups because they have not got the ridge and Poodle breeders destroying perfectly healthy pups due to a larger than wanted litter, lots of other breeders destroying healthy pups because they are not breed standard colour or are not possessing all the required breed traits!! the list goes on.

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Re: Rutland Manor. Is this the truth behind the legend?

Post by Lizzie B » 29 Jun 2009, 20:50

Very interesting reading Carole.

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Re: Rutland Manor. Is this the truth behind the legend?

Post by PennyAli » 29 Jun 2009, 21:30

what about the other side of the story, well at least the public part http://www.rutlandmanor.com/pages/home/ ... mpaign.php but its so easy for people to show you the parts they want to, when they don't like someone.

What about the people hear in this country claiming to breed Australians (that are not true Australian Labradoodles) and breeding them back to back????

Ask yourself this why would someone pick on an Australian Labradoodle breeder and use them as an example in an attempt to discredit them and others, but not the Barf books that advocate the same practises, I am not saying its right, and I don't agree with breeding back to back with no break but I wonder why they were used as an example?????

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Re: Rutland Manor. Is this the truth behind the legend?

Post by linny2 » 29 Jun 2009, 21:41

Rutland Manor proudly state that they breed their dogs back-to-back, and admit they've bred girls up to at least 6 years of age. I don't believe any responsible breeders anywhere would support such a practice.

As for Tegan Park, please give me a break!! After Angela Cunningham's US venture failed, she dumped the dogs in a kill shelter before disappearing, and some died before they could be rescued. This is what her own mother had to say about her just last month http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion. ... Park%20USA

Unfortunately for us here in Australia, Angela is now back, and running another puppy mill called Acacia Park (http://www.acaciapuppylove.com/) that breeds "Pocket, Tiny Toy, & Miniature Toy Poodles". Authorities here are trying to shut them down, and the website now reads "I am told I have too many dogs and not good enough health so several beautiful girls and boys are offered to loving pet or small breeder homes." Bloody hell :(

If you want to know more about Angela Cunningham, just ask the guys at IDOG and Poodle Rescue, who have to clean up after her :evil:

Best wishes,
Linny
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Re: Rutland Manor. Is this the truth behind the legend?

Post by PennyAli » 29 Jun 2009, 21:54

Yet another distortion of the truth :roll: , she is talking about her personal health!

"This is an opportunity not to be missed, Due to a recent road accident and my personnel health most of my precious dogs must go to allow time to help with Lens road to recovery."

http://www.exotictinypoodles.com/Adults%20Available.htm

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Re: Rutland Manor. Is this the truth behind the legend?

Post by linny2 » 29 Jun 2009, 23:16

This is an example of a responsible breeder???
'Designer dogs' caught in divorce
The Labradoodles were turned over to animal control after their breeders split.

The Australian Labradoodles once had their curly coats groomed and ate doggie gourmet meals of raw meat, V8 juice and yogurt. The Labrador-poodle hybrids fetched $2,900 each for their breeders, Angela and Derek Cunningham, until the 47 dogs became victims in the couple's divorce.

The Labradoodles were neglected -- their non-shedding coats matted and covered in sandspurs. Packed into outdoor kennels at the breeding ground in Lady Lake, Florida, some dogs suffered heatstroke, some had sores and others drank slimy green water. When Angela Cunningham took control of the dogs late last month, animal-control officials warned her that the dogs' care and living conditions needed dramatic improvement. The next day she sent 30 dogs, worth at least $75,000, to the pound.

In less than two days, every designer dog was adopted for less than $150 -- a financial casualty in a divorce fraught with accusations. "I panicked," Angela Cunningham said as she stopped to swallow tears. "If I had five more days, I would have spread them out across the country. But I was scared."

Court records show Angela Cunningham tried to take out a restraining order and block Derek Cunningham's access to the property where the dogs lived. Another one filed against Derek Cunningham's girlfriend mentioned that the dogs were packed into kennels and were not being groomed. Derek Cunningham, who did not return calls seeking comment, also tried to block Angela Cunningham's access to the dogs. In the end, DerekCunningham was evicted from the property. Angela Cunningham was given access to the dogs again.

She had the dogs for two days before turning them over to animal control. Unaware of the battle behind the scenes, Labradoodle lovers inundated the Lake County Animal Shelter just before Thanksgiving. "I had a woman from Oklahoma or something calling me from a plane," said Rene Segraves, the county's assistant animal-services director. "I said, 'Ma'am, you better turn around and go back. They're gone.' "

The dogs were dirty, underweight and had been neglected, Segraves said. Leslie Kalwara, former secretary for the Cunninghams' business, spread the word to other Labradoodle breeders that Angela Cunningham had turned over a fortune in neglected dogs. Outraged breeders contacted rescue groups. The messages zipped across Labradoodle chat rooms on the Internet. One nonprofit rescue group named the International Doodle Owner's Group Inc. volunteered to adopt them all, but the shelter declined. The national group patrols Web sites and classified ads across the county looking for Labradoodles or Goldendoodles (golden retriever-poodle hybrids), in shelters.

Most dogs IDOG rescues are tossed aside by backyard breeders who tried and failed to capitalize on the hybrid-breed trend. "They're [the Labradoodles] not coming from reputable breeders, until this big fiasco," said IDOG's Rescue Coordinator Jo Cousins, who said she finds Angela Cunningham's decision baffling. "There are so many people who would have stepped in and helped, and she chose to dump them into animal control."

The Labradoodle world regards the Cunninghams as pioneering breeders. The Cunninghams started their first breeding center called Tegan Park in their native country of Australia in 1992. The couple leased a ranch here in 2005 to transfer their Australian operation to Tegan Park USA, providing closer access to other breeders, who paid up to $25,000 for a Tegan Park stud dog.

But after the divorce, even the most expensive of their dogs went to the shelter, where a deadly virus spread. Canine parvovirus infected at least three dogs as they waited for the surgeon to spay or neuter them. One Labradoodle died, and the shelter euthanized another dog that began showing symptoms. New adoptive owners have quarantined at least a half-dozen other Labradoodles. "It's just a tragic end to those poor dogs," said breeder Peggy McElroy who had leased the Lady Lake ranch to the Cunninghams.

During the divorce, McElroy said, she paid a groomer to help clean the dogs, but only a handful received care before Derek Cunningham ushered them off the property. She said she thought Angela Cunningham would restore the business and take care of the neglected dogs. "It's almost like when a mother kills a child," McElroy said. Angela Cunningham said she's still grieving. She kept two of the 17 dogs she did not send to the pound. The rest are staying with breeder friends who promised to give them back when she's ready to start over.

Read the tragic story in the Orlando Sentinel.
http://oc-divorce.typepad.com/californi ... ogs_c.html

Best wishes,
Linny
Best wishes,
Linny, Buffy & Spike
Sign the pledge to stop puppy mills at http://action.humanesociety.org/site/Su ... EY_ID=1840
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Re: Rutland Manor. Is this the truth behind the legend?

Post by Bubbarooandemmatoo » 29 Jun 2009, 23:31

Goodness me. I thought I had done my homework looking into labradoodles. Im shocked at the background of this wonderful breed. I cant really comment, as I havent looked further, with knowledge of the above, but it proves for very interesting reading. My, my, how horrid greed can look, even with a pair of novice eyes.

Em.x

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Re: Rutland Manor. Is this the truth behind the legend?

Post by linny2 » 29 Jun 2009, 23:51

Before they moved from Yarragon, they were also breeding "Pocket Poodles, Spoodles, Cavoodles, Schnoodles, and Maltepoos", all no doubt for the "good of the breed" :(

Best wishes,
Linny
Best wishes,
Linny, Buffy & Spike
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Re: Rutland Manor. Is this the truth behind the legend?

Post by Rutland Manor » 01 Jul 2009, 17:10

Carole g wrote:http://www.govegan.com.au/puppies/?p=103



"She also makes the following claim which is against all relevant legislation, “At Rutland Manor we breed our girls back to back and retire them young”.

These poor dogs are not rested between litters a clear violation to the code of practice. I spoke to someone who recently rescued two of Beverley’s dogs

“Both were in a dreadful state, one has some health issues related to over breeding and both have severe psychological problems. When we visited the place in person we were shocked at what we saw and at how very different it was to the kennels glossy website. The state of one of the little girls is just dreadful. She is 8 years old and had her last litter just before we rescued her and her poor little tummy hangs to the ground. She has obviously been bred every cycle since puppy hood. Even after nearly 6 months of tender loving care, she is still terrified of everything”.

Our investigations uncovered sub standard living conditions with no protection from the elements, un-groomed dirty dogs with tight painful mats in their hair. Beverley will tell you she is creating a dog that does not shed, but all dogs shed. The Labradoodle’s hair sheds into its coat and that causes mats which is why this breed requires extensive daily grooming, something Beverley obviously doesn’t have time for.

We also received information from a man who worked on the property for a number of months. He witnessed male dogs “ripping frightened female dogs apart,” very ill dogs giving birth over and over again. One incident that left him stunned and which led to his resignation involved a female puppy only 9 months old being traumatized by a male dog for two days in a small enclosure, “the girl was simply terrified of the male who was quite aggressive with her, in the end Bev hand mated the little girl, it was sickening and cruel, that was it for me, I left that day and have never returned.”

The ploys of “Grandma Beverley” are designed to dupe a well intentioned family into buying a puppy and keeping the engine of cruelty working overtime. Her puppy farm, like all others, is designed purely for profit and not the welfare of the animals."
linny2 wrote:Before they moved from Yarragon, they were also breeding "Pocket Poodles, Spoodles, Cavoodles, Schnoodles, and Maltepoos", all no doubt for the "good of the breed" :(

Best wishes,
Linny
Hello Linny Buffy and Spike,

I have never lived at Yarragon, and I have never ever in my life bred Schnoodles, Pocket Poodles, Cavoodles, or Maltepoos as you say I have. I was breeding Cockapoos before I began to breed the Australian Labradoodle but that was a very long time ago and Cockapoos have never been mixed in with the Australian Labradoodle at least not by me. Why is an Australian stating untruths about another Australian on a UK website?

Regards,
Beverley
Beverley Manners
Rutland Manor Australia
Co Founder of the Australian Labradoodle

Rutland Manor
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Re: Rutland Manor. Is this the truth behind the legend?

Post by Rutland Manor » 01 Jul 2009, 17:23

Carole g wrote:http://www.govegan.com.au/puppies/?p=103



"She also makes the following claim which is against all relevant legislation, “At Rutland Manor we breed our girls back to back and retire them young”.

These poor dogs are not rested between litters a clear violation to the code of practice. I spoke to someone who recently rescued two of Beverley’s dogs

“Both were in a dreadful state, one has some health issues related to over breeding and both have severe psychological problems. When we visited the place in person we were shocked at what we saw and at how very different it was to the kennels glossy website. The state of one of the little girls is just dreadful. She is 8 years old and had her last litter just before we rescued her and her poor little tummy hangs to the ground. She has obviously been bred every cycle since puppy hood. Even after nearly 6 months of tender loving care, she is still terrified of everything”.

Our investigations uncovered sub standard living conditions with no protection from the elements, un-groomed dirty dogs with tight painful mats in their hair. Beverley will tell you she is creating a dog that does not shed, but all dogs shed. The Labradoodle’s hair sheds into its coat and that causes mats which is why this breed requires extensive daily grooming, something Beverley obviously doesn’t have time for.

We also received information from a man who worked on the property for a number of months. He witnessed male dogs “ripping frightened female dogs apart,” very ill dogs giving birth over and over again. One incident that left him stunned and which led to his resignation involved a female puppy only 9 months old being traumatized by a male dog for two days in a small enclosure, “the girl was simply terrified of the male who was quite aggressive with her, in the end Bev hand mated the little girl, it was sickening and cruel, that was it for me, I left that day and have never returned.”

The ploys of “Grandma Beverley” are designed to dupe a well intentioned family into buying a puppy and keeping the engine of cruelty working overtime. Her puppy farm, like all others, is designed purely for profit and not the welfare of the animals."
Hello Carole g,

I could easily post here and say that you beat your children, that I know for a fact that you are on drugs and that you have murdered someone and hidden their body in your back yard. I could also say that I know several people who have seen you dead drunk driving your car with a young child in it and that you were in a brawl at a hotel last week because I was there and saw you.

Would this make it true?

I could also post under several different names such as 'Pheobe' 'Hannah' 'Abbey' and 'Lisa' (as has been done on my own chit chat page).

Debra Tranter has never been to my property despite what she says. The photos she posted on her website as being what 'she found' at Rutland Manor a couple of weeks ago were actually taken Christmas 2007 because I recognize a dear old Golden Retriever named Elly who was in the boarding kennels Christmas 2007 before we gave the property a make over.

Please substantiate your claims about abused breeding females, with their names, or who has them. I have only kept one breeding female to the age of eight years due to the fact that when I got her from her breeder she was already timid and I wouldn't let her go until I found the perfect home for her. This was Tegan Park Winsomemore (Winnie) who went to Tracey Whyte in Queensland Australia. Tracey came in person to Rutland Manor to meet Winnie before I would let her have her.

Rutland Manor has always had open doors (and gates) and so many people from around Australia and other countries have stayed here and seen exactly how the dogs really are kept and treated. The only thing that is more surprising than the vicious attack of Debra Tranter (whose motive is that she wants EVERY breeder shut down because she says dogs should not be bred while there is a dog still in a shelter) is that anyone actually believes this rubbish when they have not seen for themselves.

Kind regards,
Beverley
Beverley Manners
Rutland Manor Australia
Co Founder of the Australian Labradoodle

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