Some perspective on recent events

General discussion on all labradoodle-related matters - anything not otherwise covered by specific forums on the site.
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Carole g
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Re: Some perspective on recent events

Post by Carole g » 17 Sep 2009, 13:06

Thank you, Adam, my investigations are always aimed at being "accurate and well informed" and as you say I have received many gracious messages from around the world.
ALWAYS visit the premises and see mum with pup. There are no excuses!
DONT BUY FROM PUPPY HARMERS
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Adam Lindley
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Re: Some perspective on recent events

Post by Adam Lindley » 17 Sep 2009, 13:16

I forgot to mention one-eyed... Raising awareness is one thing, an out and out witch hunt quite different.

No doubt anyone reading this, owning or considering an RM dog, would quite rightly be asking questions of RM.

Surely there are bigger fish to fry in the UK???

LynneL
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Re: Some perspective on recent events

Post by LynneL » 17 Sep 2009, 13:40

[quote="Adam Lindley"]No doubt anyone reading this, owning or considering an RM dog, would quite rightly be asking questions of RM.
quote]


So you are admitting that questions should be asked. It is surely better to be informed.

Adam you keep saying there a bigger fish to be fried and each time your question is answered. Many people fight for many different causes. In the end it is all cruelty and surely you must now acknowledge that?
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linny2
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Re: Some perspective on recent events

Post by linny2 » 17 Sep 2009, 14:02

Adam Lindley wrote:Debarking is not illegal in Victoria, whether it is right is a different thing altogether, but you knew that already didn't you!
Just a quick clarification on that point: debarking is against the law in Victoria, unless investigation by an authorised council officer of the municipality confirms that despite every reasonable effort by the owner to discourage the dog from barking by considerate care, training and management the dog continues to bark persistently, has been declared a Public Nuisance, and there is no other alternative but euthanasia.

It's my understanding that RM had no permission from council, that none of the dogs had been declared a Public Nuisance, and that the dogs could readily have been placed elsewhere. Despite all this, and the fact they'd already been told by the EPA that debarking was not an acceptable solution, RM debarked regardless. The Code of Practice can be found at http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/dpi/nreninf.n ... EA0027A696

Best wishes,
Linny
Best wishes,
Linny, Buffy & Spike
Sign the pledge to stop puppy mills at http://action.humanesociety.org/site/Su ... EY_ID=1840
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heike
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Re: Some perspective on recent events

Post by heike » 17 Sep 2009, 18:54

Yes Linny you are correct, she did NOT have permission to debark her dogs and that is why she went 10hrs away to do so. As far as being a STICKEY BEAK, Bev herself put her business out there for the world to see, her website is for anyone to view. Her practices are to be scrutinized, she isn't selling paper clips for goodness sakes she is selling DOGS. And since her practices involve illegal and abusive activites it is our DUTY to protect them. I am interested Adam, I have two Australian Labradoodles. As far as comparing her business from five years ago to today, she hasn't changed. She still breeds dogs back to back, she still supports underage breeding and she still leaves a heavily pregnant dog in a kennel (BTW) that dog is debarked!! Are you saying people should not be punished for their crimes/abuse because it was done yesterday or even five years ago. :idea:

caroline.sid
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Re: Some perspective on recent events

Post by caroline.sid » 17 Sep 2009, 21:28

Adam Lindley wrote:..................

Surely there are bigger fish to fry in the UK???
....who are the "Bigger Fish" that you allude to?

Many times you have appeared to mitigate RM's appalling actions by alluding to other more appalling breeders - I had always assumed that these referred to breeders on the same patch as RM (Australia). Are you aware of doodle breeders acting in a similar manner in the UK?
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linny
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Re: Some perspective on recent events

Post by linny » 17 Sep 2009, 23:56

Adam set me some questions...I will answer you Adam

[quote="Adam Lindley"]What would constitute a witch hunt in your eyes then? Surely the sock puppets are busy building a ducking stool :?
Linny's reply
In my eyes a witch hunt would be the persecution of an individual or group without evidence of wrong doing by that individual.
In RM's case there is evidence with more and more being made public everyday

Adams Question
What are YOUR experiences of dealing with Rutland Manor? Any?
Linny's reply
No Adam I do not have personal experience of dealing with Rutland Manor, but then neither did you until your visit...and you seem to be able to voice your opinions quite freely even though your experience with RM was fleeting to say the least :roll:
As I said to you previously, my interest is as a Labradoodle owner, and an individual who abhors cruelty and neglect, especially by high profile people who supposedly know better
.

Adam.
]The high profile of the name has been earned over many years, and we didn't see any Rolls Royces lined up outside, so the huge income you insinuate isn't going there.
There is still work to be done at RM, but there is a lot of improvement work that has already been done.

Linny's reply
The annual income from 400 pups at let's say £1,000.... gives a figure of £400,000 in a year...not peanuts that's for sure, and we know that a lot of Bev's pups sell for much more than that,
Adam's question
I don't understand what you perceive the place to be? It isn't a huge operation with hundreds of dogs lined up in kennel blocks or stalls in sheds. More a small boarding kennels with 20-odd dogs set on the
outskirts of town

Linny's reply

If as you say there are only 20 odd dogs at RM, if you allow for three or four of them to be stud dogs, that leaves at least sixteen bitches being bred back to back :!: ......that's a huge turnover in pups Adam. :shock: I wouldn't call it a small concern..... I would call it a puppy farm :roll:

aussiedoodles
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Re: Some perspective on recent events

Post by aussiedoodles » 18 Sep 2009, 00:07

It was YOU Adam who admitted that you probably had the wool pulled over your eyes regarding the visit to RM and that you had NOT seen the ENTIRE Facility NOR had you layed your hands on EVERY Dog - so you could not be 100% sure.

Yet we have had posts from people who have personal experience with the facilities and the Dogs (Prior to any cleaning) and you do not believe their account of what they saw or what they know.

I KNOW that the "Evidence" that has been presented and the first hand accounts from people - would only have been presented if it were factual and defendable in a court of law (should the need arise).

Can you say the same?

Adam Lindley
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Location: Sydney

Re: Some perspective on recent events

Post by Adam Lindley » 18 Sep 2009, 12:39

Aussiedoodles - we went on a self funded long weekend excursion to Victoria, not a fact finding mission for the UN!

You know what you know, wherever you might be, Windsor Castle or Victoria. Your sources are obviously very close to the anti-RM groups and hopefully no-one will end up in court to defend their words posted on a forum.

We called it as we saw it - that was it. Benefit of the doubt to RM probably, but nothing more.

Linny - 16 bitches, 400 pups per annum :?

Heike - you've known about this for 5 years and only just found a band wagon to jump on!

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Carole g
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Re: Some perspective on recent events

Post by Carole g » 18 Sep 2009, 13:47

Adam, as you so rightly said RM has scaled down by more than half, the licence conditions required it, the licence is for 24 dogs.

in 2005 there were more than 400 puppies recorded from well over 60 breeding dogs and bitches at Rutland Manor.
ALWAYS visit the premises and see mum with pup. There are no excuses!
DONT BUY FROM PUPPY HARMERS
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GUNNER
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Re: Some perspective on recent events

Post by GUNNER » 18 Sep 2009, 14:27

Carole g wrote: in 2005 there were more than 400 puppies recorded from well over 60 breeding dogs and bitches at Rutland Manor.
It was hard enough trying to find excellent homes for my 7 pups, how on earth can you ensure 400+ brilliant homes :shock: :shock:
Wonder what happened to any pups that weren't exactly what people wanted :(

linny
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Re: Some perspective on recent events

Post by linny » 18 Sep 2009, 15:23

!6 bitches ? 18 bitches ? 20 bitches ?...you know how many Adam as you were there.
If each produced between eight and ten pups twice in a year 400 might be a number a little on the high side I concede .... but we know that some of the dogs at RM were covered three times in a year .
Also there would be bitches in private homes that Bev had breeding rights to .
You continually ask questions of others Adam but I notice that you yourself never answer a direct question with a direct answer.
Can I ask how long you have been breeding Labradoodles? do you have years of experience of the breed.?......people like Tamaruke have , and they have posted to say that there are indeed problems at RM.
People are telling you what they have personally seen or experienced and you still choose not to believe them even though your opinion is based on a 48 hour visit.
As you yourself point out you were only at Rutland Manor for a very short period of time yet you are steadfast in your defence of a "little old lady"...
I am 60+ myself Adam , I muck out and clean twelve stables and four goat houses on a daily basis ..and they are not dirty unlike the RM pens ......if I couldn't keep the place clean or the animals groomed I would give up which IMO is what Bev should do.

heike
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Joined: 11 Jul 2009, 02:18

Re: Some perspective on recent events

Post by heike » 19 Sep 2009, 04:15

Adam, there is much documented evidence of what has been done at RM and TP in the past as well as now. I did my research on my own since purchasing my dogs from a local breeder. As I have stated many times, I WAS a supporter of Bev. But finding out the TRUTH about her breeding practices, her debarking of her breeding dogs, back to back breeding, keeping dogs in unclean kennels, breeding a pound puppy and selling them for thousands with fake pedigrees, lying about university studies, selling breeding dogs around the world, then bashing their programs, banning people from her chat page that ask honest questions about pedigrees, selling 400 puppies in one year and then saying on her website she only breeds for the betterment of the breed. Give me a break what the heck is there to support!!! As far as JUMPING on the BAND WAGON, nooo Adam, I am my own person and don't need anyone else to speak for me. You may support her because either you feel sorry for her or you share her twisted religous beliefs, I for one will never support a puppy farmer and animal abuser so sorry Adam the facts speak for themselves. :evil:

heike
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Joined: 11 Jul 2009, 02:18

Re: Some perspective on recent events

Post by heike » 19 Sep 2009, 04:53

You may want to ask her about her pedigrees and see what happens, a number of breeders and non breeders have first hand experience to what she does when questioned.

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