Rutland Manor - when you think it can't get any worse...

General discussion on all labradoodle-related matters - anything not otherwise covered by specific forums on the site.
linny
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Re: Rutland Manor - when you think it can't get any worse...

Post by linny » 10 Oct 2009, 11:00

PennyAli wrote:Just because UK breeders refuse to bad mouth people all over their website, does not make them a bad breeder :shock:

Some of the UK breeders who are dedicated to the Australian Labradoodles are doing their best to move forward with the breed properly, we have helped set up the ALAEU which is an official organisation which is a sister organisation to both the ALA and the ALAA, fortunately we have access to their databases, so we can do our best to trace our own pedigree's back and see what breeds are in their and make sure that we make the right decisions going forward, we are all fully health testing which is being checked and recorded by the ALAEU registrar, we are all DNA profiling our breeding stock with compatible DNA Labs so that we can prove parentage of all our dogs and offspring. We can all check if the dogs mentioned are in our lines, and we have to remember that their are hundreds of RM lines out their so just because some are questionable in terms of pedigree and the amount of poodle, does not mean that they all are. One thing that remains firm in my mind is that despite all of this there is something very unique about the Australian Labradoodles, they ARE wonderful dogs, people that have met mine, have seen the difference for themselves and unless you have had the opportunity to have both Labradoodle Origins and Australian Labradoodles you wouldn't appreciate the difference.

I love all of my Australian Labradoodles, none of them came directly from RM but have it in their pedigree and whilst I feel deeply for their ancestors, I don't love my dogs any less for it

I applaud this post!...I totally agree with you Pennyalli with the exception of "bad mouthing"

This Topic isn't about bad mouthing ,it's about highlighting bad breeding practise and the suffering caused by it.
It has never been about British Breeders,it's obvious you are doing all the right things to move the breed forward.
The trouble is that RM hasn't done these things and this has cast doubt on the TRUE linage of it's dogs.
Like lillybut if I was about to pay a high price for an Australian Labradoodle I would want to know that that's exactly what I was buying.
Unfortunately a lot of buyers of the breed worldwide have been duped by RM ...if DNA testing shows a very high ratio of Poodle genes.. then that is what you are buying...a Poodle x
It's great that seriously motivated and genuine breeders are willing to speak here and discuss this very serious issue openly not by PM or behind the closed doors of the breeders forum.
This is of immense interest to all owners of Australian Labradoodles and more importantly to potential new owners.

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PennyAli
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Re: Rutland Manor - when you think it can't get any worse...

Post by PennyAli » 10 Oct 2009, 12:38

Linny from now on people will be able to buy pups with an official ALAEU pedigree with its full pedigree and registration number and grade sent from the registrar of the ALAEU. We are trying to be as open and transparent as possible and are all making changes to our websites, but this is not an easy process and takes time, you may have noticed my website has my health testing information on the dogs individual pages along with their grades (as is a requirement of the ALAEU). My future pups will be registered with the ALAEU and come with official pedigrees. Many of the other Australian Labradoodle breeders in the UK are all doing the same and I am no exception from them.

This is not something we have done in light recent events, it is something we have been working on for the last 18 months, we held our first international meeting in London last year, where breeders from all over Europe attended.

linny
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Re: Rutland Manor - when you think it can't get any worse...

Post by linny » 10 Oct 2009, 13:57

This is just what people need :) ......Accredited breeders, who are open and transparent.
It would have been better all round if RM had adhered to these high standards instead of so much subterfuge :(

lilybut
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Re: Rutland Manor - when you think it can't get any worse...

Post by lilybut » 10 Oct 2009, 14:09

I honestly don't mean to imply that any of the British ASD labradoodle breeders are anything but honest, caring and responsible people. Thank you PennyAli for explaining about the ALAEU, it sounds very interesting and exactly what is needed to move forward with the Australian Labradoodle in Europe. I am sorry if you were offended by my thoughts!

Like Linny says though, bad mouthing is not actually the point. But there are a lot of rather defensive and slightly aggressive words being bandied about, and that certainly doesn't help to encourage people, especially perhaps UK breeders to come forward and discuss their breeding programmes and dogs. I don't blame you Freedom or PennyAli for being loath to join in.

BUT I am glad you have, by outlining the ALAEU, and I think it is important that UK breeders DO let people like me, who are your customers after all, know what the position for ASD doodles over here is. Sorry, "customer" is not a good word in this context, but for all the love and hearts we all have for dogs (i hope!) if you are a breeder then it is, after all, a business and you cannot afford to lose the trust of your potential customers.

Freedom said
What are we expected to do???
The only thing we can do is move forward and that is what we are doing
I agree, but in terms of what you can do - maybe get the info about the ALAEU out there, on your websites?

And now i think i will pop my thoughts back in their box, and go and play with my dog!
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freedom
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Re: Rutland Manor - when you think it can't get any worse...

Post by freedom » 10 Oct 2009, 14:43

I agree, but in terms of what you can do - maybe get the info about the ALAEU out there, on your websites?
We shall do lilybut but these things take time, I have been working on the website heaps these last few weeks, but started building it quite a while back. I worked on it through to 3a.m some nights. It is still not 'finished' but we can now take membership from other Australian Labradoodle breeders. Everything has to be correct and up and running, last time the ALAEU was menitoned here people questioned much of the content but I was still working on it and anyone who builds websites will know you need a skeleton.
Please all note though that the ALAEU was being set up long before any of you brought this RM business to the fore. Just because I have two dogs from Beverley does not mean I condone any of these 'issues' but I do not wish to be part of a public slating and after all as I have said before we don't even know who Aussiedoodles is, all that we do know is he/she lives at Windsor Castle !! and who is Heike?? Does anyone know?? so why do you think we should come and stand up to be ripped apart along with Beverley??
As for the StopRM site I have had a look and it all seems to be the same people posting ??

BTW take a look at the History Page on the ALAEU site ..........what do you see???? I built my own website too but a very long time ago when I first got Nirvana, I am glad that you have not noticed any changes as that means I have done a good job of changing things gradually. I am not about to change everything because of a few people on UKLA think I should but you can rest assured I am addressing the whole issue. I am about to have the second generation of Creamofbritish Australian Labradoodles and I am proud of my dogs, every one of them and I am quite sure that my puppy people who are on UKLA will say the same about them, they are my testament that I am doing things correctly thank you.

Right now I feel quite hurt and angry and it feels like a constant battle on here to defend myself, when actually I don't need to. Now I am off of here before my blood boils any higher.

sylvie
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Re: Rutland Manor - when you think it can't get any worse...

Post by sylvie » 10 Oct 2009, 20:08

I have no doubts at all that the UK breeders of the ASD's are doing a lovely job of taking their dogs forward in a kind,loving and caring manner,and making sensible decisions to take the breed forward,but may I ask them one question please.
Did the imported dogs from RM turn up in an exceptible condition :?:

heike
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Re: Rutland Manor - when you think it can't get any worse...

Post by heike » 11 Oct 2009, 10:48

Who is Heike?? I am me, a concerned owner of two RM/TP bred dogs!! I bought my dogs from a local and very responsible breeder, much like yours Cream!! I have voiced my opinion because yes, I do care about where my dogs came from!!! I have witnessed the venom of Bev spewed out to anyone daring to question her pedigrees and her treatment of her breeding dogs. Here's the caveat, I paid around 2000$ each for my dogs with the understanding that they were pure Australian Labradoodles. Now I find out they are mostly poodle with no lab what so ever in their pedigrees. Do I love my dogs any less, NOOOO. But did I get what was told on their pedigrees, NOOO. If you can't understand why I am angry over all of this and why I won't give Bev a pass on her deception so be it. I love my breeder and would never hurt her, she has been duped as well. We are not bashing the breeders of labradoodles here in the US or in the UK, but are questioning the practices of RM and the deception that has taken place over a very long time. :x

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freedom
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Re: Rutland Manor - when you think it can't get any worse...

Post by freedom » 13 Oct 2009, 15:27

Heike I am sorry if I upset you and I do appreciate your position, I understand far more now that I have spoken to Aussiedoodles. A very dear friend of mine has pointed out that it looks like I am defending Beverley, I can assure that is not the case, in no way am I defending Beverley for the actions of which she's accused, I am defending no-one here except my two RM dogs.
I find it so upsetting to learn that someone whom I have held in such high esteem has allegedly betrayed the trust of so many.
To repeat what I have already said.......

These recent allegations clearly concern me but What I will say is I love my dogs no less for hearing this news, even I struggle to understand it all though. I will not be taking any of my dogs out of my breeding programme as all are fit and healthy with far more health tests than the majority of LO's. What I will be doing is improving on RM & TP in a transparent manner, I did buy from her thinking 'get the best from the best' but I feel I can do better than her and will strive to leave a legacy very different to her own.

These photo's were taken 2hrs after Nirvana stepped off the plane, he is the one on the right, I have no complaints about the condition he arrived in, or his temperament.
When Molli arrived though I looked at getting my Aussie's from elsewhere,
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sylvie
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Re: Rutland Manor - when you think it can't get any worse...

Post by sylvie » 13 Oct 2009, 17:55

Look how handsome he is :wink:

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Carole g
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Re: Rutland Manor - when you think it can't get any worse...

Post by Carole g » 13 Oct 2009, 18:56

Thanks for answering some questions that I think were in a lot of people minds, freedom. I do not believe that people should be dragooned into one camp or another, and like me you are your own person.

I have met Molly and Nirvana recently and they are both very sweet dogs in good health , I don't think anyone should claim that Beverley didn't send out some nice dogs, my problem is how they are bred and kept and the sale of dogs as "allergy friendly" with no care shown.

I have to tell Adam that he is wrong in fact. The seller of a dog is responsible for the claims they make for their dogs under the American and English legal systems (and I presume Australia is no different). The buyer treats the seller as the Expert, and when told that a dog is almost certainly fine for allergy sufferers you can hardly blame the buyer for believing such fake claims. When there is a catastrophe, such as serious illness as a result of mi-selling, then the seller bears a huge responsibility. The sale of a dog is no different in law than any other goods.
ALWAYS visit the premises and see mum with pup. There are no excuses!
DONT BUY FROM PUPPY HARMERS
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MrsAdmin
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Re: Rutland Manor - when you think it can't get any worse...

Post by MrsAdmin » 13 Oct 2009, 21:47

Debbie, no one has ever doubted your dedication to your breeding programme and deep love of your dogs. Nirvana is a cracker of a dog :P No wonder you are proud of him :lol:

I wish with all my heart that none of the stuff about Rutland Manor or Beverley Manners was true and that the poor dogs WERE having the life of Riley she made out to be so wonderful, living in caring guardian homes and treated with love and respect.

Sadly this has clearly been shown not to be the case and many people have been deeply hurt by what has been revealed, as well as the poor dogs who have been abused and suffered.

I am delighted to see that the ALAEU have put the true story of the Labradoodle creation on their history page and that the code of ethics is strengthened so that no bitch will be mated under age and that there is such strict adherence to tracing lineage and transparency of breeding.

This is what is desperately needed. Honest breeding and a fully accredited system of registration :P .

Perhaps there should be a direct link from the pages on UKLA about breeding to the ALAEU, with details that state 'for information on authentic and genuine Aussie Doodles purchase from ALAEU breeders'. That way confidence in ASD Labradoodles can be restored and buyers can be assured that they will be purchasing puppies bred with real love and care, watched over by a breed organisation that has teeth to prevent such abuse of Doodles ever again.
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aussiedoodles
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Re: Rutland Manor - when you think it can't get any worse...

Post by aussiedoodles » 14 Oct 2009, 17:12

As this post says:

"Just when you think it can't get any worse"

http://stoprutlandmanor.wordpress.com/2 ... omment-665


graciedoodle
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Re: Rutland Manor - when you think it can't get any worse...

Post by graciedoodle » 14 Oct 2009, 18:38

I dont cry easily but Ellies life story is beyond horrendous,absolutly heartbreaking. Poor,poor Ellie. If she is alive i pray she is in a warm,loving home, and getting all the attention she so deserves. If she is dead may she rest in peace and recover to see life over rainbow bridge. Beverley Manners should watch out,God dosnt pay his debts in money according to my Grandmother. :cry:
experienced hobby labradoodle breeder.all parents health tested and pups reared indoors and garden.f1s,f1bs and minis occasionly available.

amber
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Re: Rutland Manor - when you think it can't get any worse...

Post by amber » 14 Oct 2009, 18:46

How could anyone do that to a beautiful girl like Ellie.
Anyone capable of that mistreatment must have a heart of stone.
I'm a firm believer in what goes around comes around!
God bless Ellie X

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