Rutland Manor - what can we do?

General discussion on all labradoodle-related matters - anything not otherwise covered by specific forums on the site.
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Bid
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Rutland Manor - what can we do?

Post by Bid » 15 Oct 2009, 23:51

I haven't really been involved so far in the Rutland Manor debate, but the latest revelations, particularly about poor Ellie, have made me realise that I can't just read about it and not try to do something. So, my question is... there's been a lot of talk, but in practical terms, what, if anything, can we do about it? Any suggestions?

Just to remind you ... http://stoprutlandmanor.wordpress.com/
www.dogtrekker.co.uk
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heike
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Re: Rutland Manor - what can we do?

Post by heike » 16 Oct 2009, 00:28

Yes there is, visit the website, they have listed places to contact and have your voice added. Informing as many people you can about this and keep checking back often as the story is not over, it has just begun. :|

linny
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Re: Rutland Manor - what can we do?

Post by linny » 16 Oct 2009, 00:42

Perhaps now that the truth is unfolding a boycott of RM is what's needed...(as many are already asking for)
Perhaps other breeders,world wide could disassociate themselves publicly from RM via their websites so that any potential new buyer would be made aware of the allegations relating to RM .?

heike
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Re: Rutland Manor - what can we do?

Post by heike » 16 Oct 2009, 00:47

Linny,
I just visited your website, what a wonderful thing you do for those animals!!!!!!! BTW your dog is a cutie!!! :P

linny
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Re: Rutland Manor - what can we do?

Post by linny » 16 Oct 2009, 01:07

:oops: :oops: :oops: thank you..I'm privileged to help them.
Cruelty and neglect affects me deeply.... I see a lot of it doing the work that I do

heike
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Re: Rutland Manor - what can we do?

Post by heike » 16 Oct 2009, 01:18

linny wrote::oops: :oops: :oops: thank you..I'm privileged to help them.
Cruelty and neglect affects me deeply.... I see a lot of it doing the work that I do
Oh your very welcome!!
:P How do I put a pic on my replies, I see so many cute doods on here I just wanted to share my two with you also!!

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KateW
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Re: Rutland Manor - what can we do?

Post by KateW » 16 Oct 2009, 01:25

Good question, Bid. I think Rutland Manor has been thoroughly discredited and it is now a question of what is happening/ has happened to the dogs in their possession. Presumably the slow wheels of the law are turning and it is difficult to think of anything practical individuals can do apart from following the suggestions to e mail the council.etc as outlined in the StopRutlandManor site. I hope that breeders worldwide will disassociate themselves from RM, especially important on their web sites as so many prospective owners trawl these for information and need to know what has been going on....

The desperately sad thing about this awful saga is that similar and worse things are happening every day all over the world. Conditions in puppy farms here where puppies are being bred for sale in pet shops are appalling and puppies are being traded illegally, sold to naive buyers and then entering rescues or, worse still, being sold on via the small ads at a very young age when their new owners find they cannot cope. And there are still so many people thinking it would be "nice" to let their dog have puppies with absolutely no idea of what they are doing, no health testing, puppies being reared on rubbishy cheap diets without any socialisation or care taken to screen purchasers.

Because of Rutland Manor's high profile and their status as "founders" of the breed it has been possible to attract a great deal of publicity to expose their appalling practises.There is also the question of fraudulent mis-selling of dogs but I have no idea whether any of the breeders who have been conned or those who have been sold puppies with a false pedigree will take legal action. This sort of forensic examination of a breeder demands very hard work and the average puppy farmer is not going to be subjected to such a study.

Education of the general dog buying public is the only way to stamp out puppy farmers and I believe that everybody who loves dogs and is prepared to do a modicum of research is an ambassador for dogs. As we go out and about with our dogs on a daily basis we can answer questions, explain the importance of properly bred puppies, advise on how to find a breeder, help and support novice dog owners and try to ensure that dogs are generally presented in a good and positive light. Some of us will be involved in rescue work, others will support organisations opposing puppy farms by making financial donations, others will campaign/demonstrate or do as you did recently, Bid and spend a day presenting information on puppy farms at a local show.

Like everybody else, I think the story of RM is truly shocking and the misery of the individual dogs is heartbreaking. But I also think it would be a pity for everybody to focus on this while ignoring or not recognising the cruelty going on around us every day and trying to do something about that.

Katherine
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aussiedoodles
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Re: Rutland Manor - what can we do?

Post by aussiedoodles » 16 Oct 2009, 04:13

campaign for Labradoodle Associations to not register any RM Pedigrees from a certain date

Adam Lindley
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Re: Rutland Manor - what can we do?

Post by Adam Lindley » 16 Oct 2009, 07:45

Continue hand wringing about RM OR

Contact your local Animal Lib group and find out what is happening on your doorstep.

Education is key.

Over here it is accepted that pedigree dogs get sold without papers. Even second generation paperless dogs are sold as pedigrees (puppies don't come with papers, parents don't have papers, but they are pedigrees...).

Pet shop paperwork is accepted as being as good as a pedigree...

In the UK, I hope people wouldn't accept this - certainly anyone who has looked through this forum would hopefully be aware. Talk to breeders (more than one), ask about the others, most breeders will give an honest appraisal of thier competition, particularly if they are unable to provide what you are looking for.

A boycott isn't really going to work, when there are only 2 posters here who have done buisness with RM and it is generally agreed that taking action against breeders who have RM stock is unwarranted and unfair?

heike
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Re: Rutland Manor - what can we do?

Post by heike » 16 Oct 2009, 09:11

A boycott isn't really going to work, when there are only 2 posters here who have done buisness with RM and it is generally agreed that taking action against breeders who have RM stock is unwarranted and unfair? Adams post. :

WHAT??? Who said anyone wants to take action against breeders with RM/TP stock??
This is about BEV, period and her treatment of HER breeding dogs. I don't think it could be any plainer. :shock:

Adam Lindley
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Re: Rutland Manor - what can we do?

Post by Adam Lindley » 16 Oct 2009, 09:32

please re-read what I have written.

Boycotting RM isn't like boycotting Tescos. You don't buy a dog 3 times a week. As I said, there are only a handful of people on this forum who have done business with RM.

If anyone was looking to source an ASD, there are alternative breeders out there.

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MrsAdmin
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Re: Rutland Manor - what can we do?

Post by MrsAdmin » 16 Oct 2009, 16:56

Why are you so desperately trying to divert every discussion away from Beverley and Rutland Manor Adam?

Surely you cannot still continue to be an apologist for Beverley Manners after all that has been revealed about RM and their behaviour? (and I can tell you that there is far more :evil: but it will not be put in the public arena without cast iron proof, instead of hearsay from terrified people).

We know that there are other puppy farmers just as bad operating in the UK but this is not about them. This is about the so-called 'founder' and the lies and deceit that has been spun around 'our' breed. Stick to the point please :roll:

There are several different ways in which you can all help prevent such terrible abuse happening again.

1) You can write to the authorities in Australia who are dealing with the Rutland Manor affairs. The more emails and letters they receive the more they will pay attention to what people are saying.

As the site link Bid has posted is very long and complex (so much nightmare being unravelled :cry: ) here are the direct contacts:

please email:
Ruth McGowan
The Mayor of Baw Baw
bawbaw@bawbawshire.vic.gov.au

and CEO David Powell
bawbaw@bawbawshire.vic.gov.au

RSPCA Chief Inspector Greg Boland
gboland@rspcavic.org.au

Don't just sit in front of your PC, remember Ellie and all the other poor, abused RM dogs and be a voice for them.

2) Support what many people are already calling for - A boycott of RM sales of both breeding dogs and puppies.

I actually agree with Adam that this might not be so directly effective as far as the dogs being sold for breeding are concerned as only two people in the UK have actually bought straight from RM (and Debbie certainly won't again :cry: ) but it just might influence other breeders in their breeding plans and make them aware that buyers opinion are against exploitation, as has been so clearly revealed.

It will be far more effective for the sale of all the puppies they are producing as direct sales to a waiting list. Already people are following their consciences and pullling out of purchases, even though it means they lose deposits.

This is NOT a boycott of other breeders here or boycotting Aussie Doodles in general but a direct boycott of Beverley Manners puppies.

The only way to hit puppy farmers hard is by drying up the market for their 'goods'.

3) If you are planning on buying an Aussie Doodle then ask questions.

Find out what your breeder thinks about the RM treatment of their dogs. Look at what they have put on their web sites - are they STILL proclaiming Beverley Manners as the Great Guru and Founder or have they removed any mention of her?
Is your breeder a member of any Aussie Doodle Associations, such as ALAEU, and what are their policies and how does that organisation plan to handle the RM situation?
Do your homework - read up about Choosing a Labradoodle on the Labradoodle Trust site (masses of good information there) http://www.labradoodletrust.com/puppies.html
Ask the breeder more questions - where have their Doodles come from?, what are the pedigrees?, What DNA testing have they done?, what health tests have they done?, Are their dogs kept in their homes or kennels?
Ask on forums about breeders. Check for personal recommendations.

Take no-one's word for it - go and see for yourself with open eyes and an informed mind.

4. Give your Doodle(s) extra cuddles and tell them what lovely, lucky dogs they are that they are loved and cared for. REMEMBER the RM dogs (who are still missing and are God knows where) and hold them in your hearts.
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Adam Lindley
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Re: Rutland Manor - what can we do?

Post by Adam Lindley » 16 Oct 2009, 20:36

Mrs Admin - the facts are that unless you have access to RM waiting lists, there is very little extra pressure you can put on RM. Apart from taking up Authority time, do you believe a winge from the UK will bring anything new to the debate?

On another thread I am being compared with holocaust denyers, yet you are encouraging breeders and associations to write RM out of thier histories. You can't have it both ways!

Perhaps a more appropriate action might be for Mark to create a sticky thread relating to RM, listing the relevent sites (RM, Debra Tranters site, the love RM sites the hate RM sites) and get everything out of the general discussion. Those with a genuine concern can see clearly what is developing.

All concerned should reflect on what RM/TP have brought to the doodle world, good and bad, and decide how to move on.

linny
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Re: Rutland Manor - what can we do?

Post by linny » 16 Oct 2009, 20:57

I wasn't suggesting a boycott of dogs bred from RM stock by bona fide breeders across the world ..
I was suggesting a boycott of Rutland Manor .
There are still breeding dogs and pups at RM so any potential new buyers need to be made aware of the allegations laid against RM.
Most people will surf Doodle related sites to find reputable breeders, so if reputable breeders publicly disassociate themselves from RM it would serve as a huge buyer beware warning bell and people would simply not buy from RM.....I wouldn't
Oh
Adam...who in the hell compared you personally with a holocaust denyer :?:I didn't :evil:
I simply made a statement of comparison...

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MrsAdmin
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Re: Rutland Manor - what can we do?

Post by MrsAdmin » 16 Oct 2009, 21:15

Adam Lindley wrote:Mrs Admin - the facts are that unless you have access to RM waiting lists, there is very little extra pressure you can put on RM. .
There are people who are cancelling Doodles ordered from RM already. They are not fools and stand to lose substantial deposits. What they have is a conscience and the ability to use their minds to see through the fudge of spin, deceit and lies that Beverley weaves.
Adam Lindley wrote: Apart from taking up Authority time, do you believe a winge from the UK will bring anything new to the debate?
It is not wingeing to write a constructive and pertinent letter to an authority who are currently investigating the RM situation. Believe it or not Adam, Australia is a democracy and, as such, anyone, even those from overseas, can contact local governments there without needing your permission.

Baw Baw Council are being held up to ridicule worldwide by the blatant disregard for the law that Beverley Manners has shown, as well as possibly running the risk of being considered in collusion should a group action for fraud be brought by the many, many breeders and puppy buyers who have been deceived about pedigrees and dogs they have purchased.

I should think they will be extremely interested in what people from around the world will have to say on the matter.
Adam Lindley wrote:On another thread I am being compared with holocaust denyers, yet you are encouraging breeders and associations to write RM out of thier histories. You can't have it both ways!
Many breeders are altering their websites because they are putting the true history of the Labradoodle there , instead of the lies and deceits and false claims that Beverley has given herself over the years. Others are actually saying they want nothing to do with the woman and her breeding practices and good for them :P THEY CARE, not only about their reputations but also their dogs, something Beverley Manners does not.
Adam Lindley wrote: Perhaps a more appropriate action might be for Mark to create a sticky thread relating to RM, listing the relevent sites (RM, Debra Tranters site, the love RM sites the hate RM sites) and get everything out of the general discussion. Those with a genuine concern can see clearly what is developing.

All concerned should reflect on what RM/TP have brought to the doodle world, good and bad, and decide how to move on.
There are no stickies on this site Adam, you are confusing it with DT. :roll:

Well, isn't that JUST what you would like Adam -" move on, forget, push under the carpet, let it alone, pretend it never happened, go away, keep quiet."

Well I have news for you Adam - these revelations about Rutland Manor are not going to go away. What Beverley Manners has contributed to Doodles is turning out to be lies, untruths, fabrications, fictions, trickery, spin and downright cruelty and fraud :evil:

It's far too important to Labradoodle lovers to see that our breed is not ill-treated in order to swell the bank balance of puppy farmers such as Beverley Manners. We actually care on here Adam, even if you don't.

So I suggest you go back to Beverley and tell her you have failed to shut everyone up on UKLA and get the threads on RM closed down because we are not going to forget Ellie and all the other suffering dogs at RM EVER.
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