In need of some urgent advice

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gillgraham
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In need of some urgent advice

Post by gillgraham » 01 Mar 2011, 15:28

We picked up our 15 week labradoodle at the weekend and he is just gorgeous. We researched absolutely everything and are so excited to have him here , we also asked the breeder all the right questions etc etc. Anyway we took him to vet this morning to get checked and vet advised he an undecended testicle and would need surgery to remove. He also had mites. The breeder also misinformed us re weight etc. Note: The breeder when asked said she knew about the testicle but did not see it as an issue.

Vet advised me to contact the breeder as it in a hereditory defect and said the breeder should inform the other owners of any of the pups. Also the Dad should not be used for breeding. The vet also said that any illnesses related to this issue would nt be covered with insurance.

Contacted the breeder and to cut along story short she wants him back. We are completely gutted as will or children be if we have to tell them.

I am going to speak to another vet tonight for second opinon but any thoughts are welcome.

I have told the breeder that we will not make any decision until we are ready as we have waited a long time for this pup.

Any thoughts are most welcome as we are really struggling with this

Gill

GUNNER
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Re: In need of some urgent advice

Post by GUNNER » 01 Mar 2011, 15:53

Gill, keep your puppy if thats what you want, he's yours now anyway :) The testicles are usually down by 8 weeks but some take longer. It can cause a problem if left but can take up to 6 months ( ish ) to descend, just ensure a 6 month check up and a poss earlier than the norm neutering if the vet advises.
Never heard of a stud dog having to be withdrawn from his duties because of his offsprings lack of tackle :? I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong though.
Could the breeder be asking for him back because she feels she is being questioned too much ? Seems as though you are very happy with him and he has a good home ( after all she did sell him to you in the first place )
As for the rest of the boys in the litter, it would be prudent for her to contact the new owners and see if any others have the same thing, I am assuming there was no 8 week check of the whole litter where this kind of thing is picked up and noted :?:

Pippin
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Re: In need of some urgent advice

Post by Pippin » 01 Mar 2011, 15:56

As far as I am aware an undecended testicle at 15 weeks does not mean it will not decend, at 6 months you'll have a better idea. Surgery recommending is neutering so presumably unless you have him for breeding you would probably be neutering him anyway. However that doesn't change the fact that the breeder should have told you, were the pups vet checked before leaving the breeder? Is the breeder not just offering the option of returning him if you are not happy rather than insisting he is returned?

X posted with Gunner! :-))
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watto
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Re: In need of some urgent advice

Post by watto » 01 Mar 2011, 16:11

I agree that he is your pup and you should keep him if that is what you want to do. It does sound like the breeder is squirming a bit with all the questions, and I would be concerned about the fate of the pup if he went back to her.

Good luck, an undescended testis is not the end of the world, and you have received some good advice above.

Jo
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gillgraham
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Re: In need of some urgent advice

Post by gillgraham » 01 Mar 2011, 16:21

Hi,

Thanks for all your advice. The breeder said she knew about the issues but did not think she needed to inform me and she could have sold pup 3 times over.(I said it was nothing to do with the money). She definately said that she wanted her dog back! (There was not any option). Also not that this is an issue but I had originally been looking for a minature however she said that he was very small, saw mum and he was a small lab and she said dad was a very small standard. Told me Jess was 8llbs 8 oz at 12 weeks , infact he was 8 kilos. Asked her this question twice as I thought he looked bigger in the picture. Anyway that does not really matter, I just wonder now what else she is not telling me. ( Not seen a pic of the Dad)

I have been brought up with cats, dogs and horses all of my life and love animals. I thought long and hard about getting a dog and would never take on a dog if I cold not provide a wonderful home. I just want the best for him.

I am just so upset over this issue. Cannot belive this has happended.

Thanks again for the advise

Gill

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Liz!
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Re: In need of some urgent advice

Post by Liz! » 01 Mar 2011, 16:31

She can't take him back as you have paid for him and he is yours. She no rights whatsoever over him.

I guess you just have to decide whether you are happy with a dog that sounds as if it might get quite big - a lab cross standard could get to standard size, and that is not small.

I wouldn't worry about the testicle so much as the mites - I know they can be killed off but what sort of conditions was he brought up in?
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watto
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Re: In need of some urgent advice

Post by watto » 01 Mar 2011, 16:35

You poor thing Gill :( The fact is though that he is not her dog anymore, he belongs to you, so I don't believe she has the right to demand him back. Good idea to seek a second opinion.

Jo

cross-posted with Liz!!
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Clair&Bob
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Re: In need of some urgent advice

Post by Clair&Bob » 01 Mar 2011, 16:40

Please do not worry about the testicle

Bob had this and it still hadn't dropped at his 6 month check so he was castrated at 9 months. Our vet performed the normal castration and then removed the testicle from the same incision and he is absolutely fine! Just a normal bouncy doodle.

He is your dog and the mites can be dealt with as can the tesicle - please don't think that you have to give him back. Many boys are born with the same condition and they go on to father many children and live a completely normal life!

All that matters is that you are aware and castrate earlier than you probably would have to stop any chance of cancer forming (I'm not trying to alarm you - that's why it is recommended that they are castrated earlier).

I've not heard that this is hereditary but even if it is - it can be sorted.

Give him a big doodle hug and enjoy him!!

Clair
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Liz!
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Re: In need of some urgent advice

Post by Liz! » 01 Mar 2011, 16:44

Sorry to invade the thread with another question of someone else, but Jo, that is a lovely picture, she seems to have got lighter - so is Lola this weather, I thought they'd get darker in the winter...
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read ~ Groucho Marx

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Pollydoodle
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Re: In need of some urgent advice

Post by Pollydoodle » 01 Mar 2011, 17:12

Hi Gill, how tough considering the joy and delight of bringing home a new pup. I would also get the second opinion as you mentioned.

I do think its a poor show on the breeder's part not to inform you. Why would she not tell you? Perhaps they have had issues before,some people would also demand a price reduction,which we can park on the side at the mo. If she didn't tell you about the pup's problems,why would she tell the next person she would sell the pup on to.
Along with the mites,which I guess are common but should have been sorted by the breeder or they should have told you they are in the middle of treating them,surely?

Not being alarmest though I would want to be 100% sure and double check the pup had also definitely had all the right jabs.

Undescended testicle or Cryptorchidism is not uncommon BUT is considered herediatry. The other new owners should be told.The op needed could be more complex as ( I don't know much)basically the vet has to hunt for the missing testicle ( if he can't find it and manipulate it now) which can be lodged quite a way from where they should be.

Can't help re the insurance question though beware,I suspect, any (heaven forbidden) future potential cancers the insurance with attribute to his current problem.

How tough to even consider giving a pup back esp having waited so long - the decision and choice to return is yours - if you yourself feel you cannot deal with the matter. Unless you have signed some contract, the breeder has no hold on the pup.

All I would recommend is that get as much info out of the breeder about your pup as possible before things turn more 'icy'. Shame on the breeder for spoiling such a special moment.

There is no reason why your new dood would not give you&family years of happiness given the right care.
Thinking of you (sorry for the long post but I really feel for you)

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newdoodle79
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Re: In need of some urgent advice

Post by newdoodle79 » 01 Mar 2011, 17:42

Oh what a viscious circle! :(

The amount of people (including myself years ago) that get a puppy, fall in love before realising that all is not what it seems :? You sound like you trusted this breeder? and now it seems there is a bitter air between you! I dont know who caused this to begin with, your vet incidently or the breeder, but certainly NOT you! already you have displayed signs of great parental skills :D your queries have arisen out of love and care for your pup! and If you had overlooked everything your vet said and hadn`t approached the breeder? then you would of cared less for your pup than you actually do.

Your breeder may be a little embarrassed, BUT, she should also be rather chuffed to have given one of her litter to such a caring and responsible person as yourself!! So for her to get stroppy, play silly games, is really not painting a good picture is it? and to make matters worse, were these unfavourable factors sending alarm bells ringing, usually have us all steering clear of such breeders or litters, it also makes us want the pup even more especially fearing for it, in the care of someone...well less worrisome? but naturally, and thanfully so! :D So what will/can you do? If it was me? I`d be getting my solicitor involved :lol: :lol: and even If there were ailments with my pup, thats now my problems, and I`d never give up on him. This not being the wise choice but theres little wisdom in thinking with ones heart :lol: :lol:
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kizzie whizz
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Re: In need of some urgent advice

Post by kizzie whizz » 01 Mar 2011, 17:52

Once I picked up my dogs they were mine, nothing would have dragged them from me, if you don't feel like that about your puppy then take him back. 15 years is a long time to live with an animal you are not sure about.
Wendy, Kizzie Whizz and Murphy
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Bid
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Re: In need of some urgent advice

Post by Bid » 01 Mar 2011, 18:09

I don't think the undescended testicle is something that would make me want to return a puppy, or the mites - they can happen with the best cared for litter, but if you were looking for a miniature doodle for a specific reason, and find that you are likely to have a standard sized dog, and if this is going to be a problem, then returning the puppy now is going to be a lot easier than when he is fully grown and has been with you for 9 months or more. I understand completely how a little pup can worm his way into your heart in a very small space of time having had to return a puppy after 2 days earlier in the year, but it has to be easier now than later.

I know that a lot can happen in terms of growth, but as a guideline, Poppy was 7 kg at 12 weeks. Fully grown she is not huge and has a slender build - she is now 21" to the shoulder and weighs 18 kg. If a meduim/standard size doodle is not a problem, then if it were me, I think I would keep the pup.
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gillgraham
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Re: In need of some urgent advice

Post by gillgraham » 01 Mar 2011, 18:19

Thank you all for you replies, been really informative. Just spoke to a second vet who agreed with the first one. Also just spoke to citizens advice to find out what my options are if she is insisting Jess is returned.

We are all absolutely devastated about this today....maybe I have been naive taking her at face value or maybe she thought she was doing right!! Who knows!! I just need to do the best for Jess. A lot of talking tonight and a big decision to be made.

Thanks Again for everything and will let you know the outcome

x

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marionfunnell
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Re: In need of some urgent advice

Post by marionfunnell » 01 Mar 2011, 18:19

Finn also had an undescended testicle which the vet identified but said it would only be a problem if it didn't descend as he got older. We joined their healthy pets club which meant we could visit every month for a weight check and each time we went, they checked his testicles and as soon as it descended, we booked him in for his castration which went ahead at 6 months.

I am more with Bid on this, if you won't be happy with a large dog better surely to rehome now rather than later; Finn is about 25 inches to the shoulder and 27kg but I don't think the height and weight matter but the training is what matters - small dogs tend to get away with a lot because of their size (jumping up being an example) but I like Finn's size, I didn't have to bend down at classes to reach his nose for heal work, its easier to give hand signals because of his height and I don't have to bend down to pat him!!! My son prefers the larger size dog too as this means they have great cuddles on the floor together and can romp around (my son is 16 later this year!!! :roll: )

Its always going to be your choice, just try and make sure you don't regret what you decide xx
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