1st Vet Visit & already vet disapproves!

General discussion on all labradoodle-related matters - anything not otherwise covered by specific forums on the site.
gilly g
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Joined: 28 Jun 2009, 20:40

Re: 1st Vet Visit & already vet disapproves!

Post by gilly g » 05 Jun 2011, 19:12

Hi
I'm with Bid (and thank you Bid for speaking out against what is such an emotive subject)

Your Vet is very wrong in challenging you- s/he should be there for the best interests of your dog, not the whys and wherefores of how it came about, or what it's breeder deems to be right)

You have obviously done a huge amount of research, and made an informed choice.

However, the very big cynic in me says that ESN is just to protect the very big bucks to be made by the breeders of ASF, but that's not what this is about, is it :D

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Linda&Coco
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Joined: 17 Nov 2009, 23:17
Location: Peterborough

Re: 1st Vet Visit & already vet disapproves!

Post by Linda&Coco » 05 Jun 2011, 20:35

Sorry to hear your first experience at the vets was not a good one.Try a different vet at the practice next time.

Coco does not like the vets after being spayed,so when I had to take her for her booster ,she jumped on the visitors chair and sat very nicely away from the vet. :lol: :lol: Needless to say the vet was not impressed.She then tried to make friends by offering her a treat which she spat out. :o

I got the impression the vet was more nervous than Coco.

After a chat she got on with the job of checking her over, gave her the jab while I had Coco's head firmly between my knees. Coco never flinched .

The moral of this is Coco would not hurt a fly.just the vet had the wrong approach.

Never had a problem with any other vet in the practice.


Ozzy is adorable enjoy him for what he is an Australian Doodle.
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Coco & Barney

Vincento
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Location: Norfolk

Re: 1st Vet Visit & already vet disapproves!

Post by Vincento » 05 Jun 2011, 20:42

I can only add that with both "Doodles" we have had... they have always been listed as a "Labrador Cross" on our pets records ..that just about sums up our vet's opinion don't you think :?:

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MrsAdmin
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Re: 1st Vet Visit & already vet disapproves!

Post by MrsAdmin » 05 Jun 2011, 22:12

You need confidence in your vet. He doesn't sound very friendly or approachable so I would recommend finding another one. If you had a crisis with lovely Ozzy (God forbid) you want someone dealing with him you have complete faith in.

The reason for many vets saying that they spay bitches between seasons is because during a season the blood vessels are engorged and there is a greater risk of losing masses of blood, to the great risk to your girlie. :o

Doing a spay before a season means you have no idea whether she is about to have her first season and hence are running a greater risk of losing her on the table. There is no exact science as to when a bitch has a first season. It could be at 6 months, 9 months or 15 months, like my Becky and Bid's Poppy.

By waiting until after a first season there is a greater chance of a regular cycle at six monthly intervals, so most vets seem to plump for the mid point at 3 months post season so there is the least risk of blood loss.

It can still go wrong though. Becky had her spay then and they think they left some ovarian material inside, as she still gets cyclical mood swings and all the symptoms of a season except she doesn't bleed and couldn't get pregnant. :cry: As the only way they could find this material is when it is engorged with blood, I have chosen not to have her operated on again and risk losing her. We just live with her pmt and try to make her happy. :cry:

As for ESN at 6 or 8 weeks, well, I feel they can make all the spurious health claims in the world but the reason is simply to protect the breeder's exclusivity. It's certainly not a topic on other breeds of dogs forums. Just because things are done a particular way in America does not make them right, nor does imported practices from a certain puppy farm in Australia... I'm with Bid on this one.
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campfaz18
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Location: Nottingham

Re: 1st Vet Visit & already vet disapproves!

Post by campfaz18 » 05 Jun 2011, 22:48

Jacob is 50/50 and his breeder was quite worried when we took him as another dog who had already been to the vet for her health check had been heavily criticised for her ESN.

We know our vet through a neighbour and he is a very kind and gentle person. He was surprised that Jacob had been neutered and said he had never come across this before (he is experienced and head of the practice) but said he thought it was common in the USA especially with shelters. He said that he thought the risks were greater with bitches as the ureatha doesn't grow fully in some cases leading to infections. I'm not sure if he was just trying to reasure us because we had a dog rather than a bitch.

On a later visit he forgot Jacob was neutered and was feeling all around expecting to feel 'something' :oops: until we reminded him and he said yes I was just going to say he's not descended :lol:

On a positive note we saw Jacob 2 days after his neutering and he was very lively and had recovered really well which can be a problem for older dogs. The ESN was not something we were keen on and on balance we think it is largely to protect breeders business.

Ozzy looks great though and I hope you can find a vet you like.
Nat, Lynne and the boy Jacob


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inkamum
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Re: 1st Vet Visit & already vet disapproves!

Post by inkamum » 05 Jun 2011, 23:43

MrsAdmin wrote:
As for ESN at 6 or 8 weeks, well, I feel they can make all the spurious health claims in the world but the reason is simply to protect the breeder's exclusivity. It's certainly not a topic on other breeds of dogs forums. Just because things are done a particular way in America does not make them right, nor does imported practices from a certain puppy farm in Australia... I'm with Bid on this one.
.... sorry ... i agreed with Bid and Mrs A on this one ..... i also think the vet was right to bring up the subject, if they felt it was part of the health history and therefore welfare of the dog .........


........ the most important thing is that you enjoy your boy ........
hari and inka

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Adam Lindley
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Joined: 18 Aug 2009, 08:51
Location: Sydney

Re: 1st Vet Visit & already vet disapproves!

Post by Adam Lindley » 06 Jun 2011, 01:09

ESN is spreading into the pedigree world over here for animals sold as pets (sold on Main Register, desexed). Show animals have to be entire (why??) which possibly explains why it isn't more common in that arena.

I don't know how many vets carry out this procedure, none that we have used do, and a phone around to see whether anyone did drew a blank.

Certainly it is the ultimate measure in brand protection.

lizziesmum
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Location: South Derbyshire

Re: 1st Vet Visit & already vet disapproves!

Post by lizziesmum » 06 Jun 2011, 06:24

Mrs Admin...Well put,I totally agree.

Will vets ENS on demand?It seems a lot of them dont like it?
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Pods2008
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Location: West Sussex

Re: 1st Vet Visit & already vet disapproves!

Post by Pods2008 » 06 Jun 2011, 10:12

Hi

Our boy Barclay is a 50/50 and we had concerns when we took him to the vet for his 2nd jabs as we knew the whole ESN debate can get very heated and we just wanted to continue with Barclay's vaccinations and well being and not have a lecture.

Like you we researched all breeds for months and even considered rescue dogs but in the end the Australian doods worked for us for various reasons which i won't go into as that is not the point of this thread.

Anyway - we needn't have worried - our vet was very open and balanced about the whole thing - he asked us what we understood about ESN and what the breeder had told us about it and then gave us his professional opinion. He basically said that the main issue for Barclay would be that he may grow bigger than a boy who hadn't had ESN. Other than that nothing to worry about as it had obviously been done well/all healed ok etc.

Barclay is now 11 months and has been to the vets a few times for passporting jabs etc and eveytime we go the vet compliments him on what a strong, healthy dog he is with a great temperament. So much so that he said he is even considering getting one!!

Don't get me wrong - if we get another breed at some point i wouldn't go and get the ESN done but from what the breeder has said about the reasons - i.e. controlling the breed/requirement of the association - her main concern was that someone would buy a dog and breed from it without knowing what they are doing. Maybe this is a way to keep the breed exclusive - im not able to argue people's motivation but aside from breed requirements but if it means that it minimises unscrupulous breeding then sobeit.

I hope you don't feel too bad now and have had time to reassure yourself that you did all your research , made a very informed choice and your boy is happy , healthy and will grow up just fine - he is gorgeous. I think the problem may be your vet's bedside manner so to speak - not your choice of dog!

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groover
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Re: 1st Vet Visit & already vet disapproves!

Post by groover » 06 Jun 2011, 22:43

Views on ESN aside

it was horrible and unprofessional of your vet to question your choice of breed. To me it's like telling someone their baby is ugly. You just don't do it.

Find yourself a vet you like. You'll be giving this man a lot of money over the years. You don't want to feel judged every time you need to take the handsome one for a check up.

My vet fell in love with Herbie. He now has a doodle of his own 8)

Xxx
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in a perfect world every dog would have a home and every home would have a dog

xxLouxx
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Location: Lanarkshire Scotland

Re: 1st Vet Visit & already vet disapproves!

Post by xxLouxx » 07 Jun 2011, 00:08

Hi
Thanks groover.xxx
Haven't had a minute to check in until now. I am very grateful and respect all your opinions. I appreciate the views re: early spaying however this was a condition for us to get ozzy which I accepted. As previously said, we had our reasons for going for this specific breed and ozzy is the best decision we have ever made for our family. He has settled in extremely well and has the most wonderful temperment. We all utterly adore him!!
Many thanks again for all your replies.
Lou

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