I saw an e-collar today

General discussion on all labradoodle-related matters - anything not otherwise covered by specific forums on the site.
donkeydoodlelulu
Posts: 353
Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 11:43
Location: Pleasington, Lancashire

I saw an e-collar today

Post by donkeydoodlelulu » 13 Jul 2013, 12:55

I know this is an emotive topic and I thought twice about posting it but here goes ....

On our walk this morning we met a middle aged professional looking man walking a lovely giant schnauzer off lead called Tess. I have never seen them before. We stopped to chat and I complemented him on his very well behaved dog. He patted Lulu and Woody and gave them a biscuit each and I thought "what a nice man". After about 5 mins chatting a car came down the track, he called Tess, she came straight back then he showed me her electric collar. He had the controller in his hand - like a small TV remote. He said it stopped her chasing bikes, joggers etc - he has it on the first setting and rarely needs to use it. He said in the past she would attack cyclists etc and it stopped her straight away. He was quite open about using it. The dog seemed happy enough but I can't stop thinking about it or get it out of my head. I was going to say "why don't you just keep her on a lead" but said nothing.

I know they are banned in Wales and I couldn't imagine ever using one in any circumstance but then we have an electric fence around our farm so maybe I am being hypocritical.

I told my husband, who is nowhere as sensitive as me, and he thought it scary. He now makes zzzzzzzzz noises whenever Lulu jumps up :lol:

It obviously worked but I couldn't imagine zapping a dog. I know people still use choke chains etc but this is a different level completely. Has anyone else experienced them either here or in other countries?
Alison, Lulu and Woody x
Image

User avatar
MandyG
Posts: 1636
Joined: 21 Oct 2011, 12:49
Location: Kent

Re: I saw an e-collar today

Post by MandyG » 13 Jul 2013, 13:07

Hi Alison,

I've heard of them but never seen one. Do they actually hurt the dog, or is it just an irritating buzz? It does sound a bit like the lazy way out if you don't want to put in the time and effort to train your dog, but if the dog is absolutely not going to learn maybe it helps keep them safe? Don't know.
Image

Love and licks, Phoebe and Mandy

donkeydoodlelulu
Posts: 353
Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 11:43
Location: Pleasington, Lancashire

Re: I saw an e-collar today

Post by donkeydoodlelulu » 13 Jul 2013, 13:21

Hi Mandy

I don't know if they hurt and he didn't use it but to me its sounds barbaric. I know nothing about them and use an electric fence to keep our neighbouring farmers sheep, cows and pigs out of our garden because he is too lazy to maintain his fences. I have touched our electric fence and it is similar to the shock you get from bad static electricity.
Alison, Lulu and Woody x
Image

suzi23173
Posts: 1016
Joined: 22 Dec 2012, 15:40

Re: I saw an e-collar today

Post by suzi23173 » 13 Jul 2013, 13:39

I think it gives them a proper shock- like an electric fence would. I expect its just a tingle at the lower level.
The people in our pub have four dogs and quite openly say they used them as they all had bad recall. They tell stories of dogs running off over roads etc "So it's for their own good". :shock: She said the dog yelped at the high level.

The same people who advised me to use one on Tess as well as a choke chain or to kick her in the front leg when she won't walk nicely on her lead. All quite matter of fact as if that's just what you do. I don't think they put any effort in to training so with them it's just lazy.

My Aunty-in-law was telling me about people they know with a nightmare dog who,
"Had to use one of those shock collars."
I think some people don't question it. Its like smacking children- years ago nobody questioned it and now a lot of people think twice but a lot still don't question it either. (Not that I 'm starting a debate about that or judging- just a comparison!)

It's using pain as a training tool isn't it? Like hitting your dog, the old rolled up newspaper, or a prong collar, or a choke chain, instead of treats and positive methods.

I know when a dogs has difficult issues to solve it can be very frustrating and you get desperate for an answer.

Not something I would do but I think there's a lot of people who wouldn't think twice.
Somebody tell them about liver cake! :lol:
Image
Love,
Suzi and Tess.
xxx

suebedo
Posts: 1824
Joined: 23 Mar 2013, 23:40
Location: Denham, South Bucks

Re: I saw an e-collar today

Post by suebedo » 13 Jul 2013, 13:48

One of our neighbours had one on a dog a while ago because the dog was completely deaf. They had other dogs and they didn't use the collars on those dogs. I've never had a deaf dog so wouldn't know how best to train recall - I assumed it was a very very low level feeling that the dog got to indicate he had to come back but not sure.
Image
Image
Image

minnie the gdoodle
Posts: 239
Joined: 20 Oct 2012, 19:57
Location: barnoldswick,lancashire

Re: I saw an e-collar today

Post by minnie the gdoodle » 13 Jul 2013, 13:54

i have thought of getting one but wondered how big an extension lead i would have to get.

suzi23173
Posts: 1016
Joined: 22 Dec 2012, 15:40

Re: I saw an e-collar today

Post by suzi23173 » 13 Jul 2013, 14:17

:lol: :lol: :lol: Very funny. Not a good idea if she falls in the canal- the fish will get zapped too!

A couple of articles and wikipedia seems to offer a good explanation and summary for the fors and againsts.

http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/shockcollars.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/pe ... -2000.html
Image
Love,
Suzi and Tess.
xxx

Doodle Dee
Posts: 3346
Joined: 30 Dec 2012, 13:50
Location: Waltham Abbey
Contact:

Re: I saw an e-collar today

Post by Doodle Dee » 13 Jul 2013, 14:22

sounds like a good idea "in theory" but I dont think I could use one but maybe that's because I dont need to perhaps.

There again I doubt I would like even a little tingle shock if I was naughty :D
Lulu & Dx

ImageImage

thepadster
Posts: 638
Joined: 02 May 2012, 13:11
Location: Culworth, Northants

Re: I saw an e-collar today

Post by thepadster » 13 Jul 2013, 14:45

Since moving to the countryside I've met loads of people who use them on their dogs. It turns out that many of them have been using a certain dog trainer whose training seems to consist of telling people to buy them and use them. I used this trainer to see if he could help with Paddy's lack of stile traversing ability (before I knew he was Mr zzzzzzzzzzz). He said he was amazed at Paddy's good behaviour and obedience and asked how did I do it? Positive reinforcement of course I replied. He seemed to go a bit milky after that and didn't offer anything that I hadn't already tried or thought of. I was close to being offered a e-collar but he would have got short shrift I can tell you. He also only walks dogs who have these collars and he charges a flipping fortune.
ImageImage

linny
Posts: 5008
Joined: 30 Oct 2007, 11:25
Location: Newton Abbot Devon
Contact:

Re: I saw an e-collar today

Post by linny » 13 Jul 2013, 15:13

I think they are barbaric..... Huggy was such a trial with his barking and originally his recall . I never cured the barking habit but recall was achieved by constant kindness and reward.
The collars are cruel and IMO should be banned.
We too use electric fencing around the sanctuary, the animals stay away from it usually after they touch it for the first time, but the fencing is not wrapped around their necks :roll:
The collars send the message ....do as I say or I'll hurt you :evil: ...
Thank goodness Wales had the sense to ban them

donkeydoodlelulu
Posts: 353
Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 11:43
Location: Pleasington, Lancashire

Re: I saw an e-collar today

Post by donkeydoodlelulu » 13 Jul 2013, 15:44

"Since moving to the countryside I've met loads of people who use them on their dogs. It turns out that many of them have been using a certain dog trainer whose training seems to consist of telling people to buy them and use them. I used this trainer to see if he could help with Paddy's lack of stile traversing ability (before I knew he was Mr zzzzzzzzzzz)."
Wow that's amazing - but not in a good way. They must be more common than I realised. I was taken aback to see a friendly looking grandpa ready to zap his dog - maybe he's been to Mr zzzzzzzzzzzz. Haven't seen or heard of a trainer using one around me - its very much gundog training here.

Just out of interest did you get anywhere with the stiles - Lulu has major issues with them - she won't go over them and she's too big to go under now so we have to go routes without them.
Alison, Lulu and Woody x
Image

Oscar2011
Posts: 848
Joined: 11 Jan 2012, 20:22
Location: Swindon.

Re: I saw an e-collar today

Post by Oscar2011 » 13 Jul 2013, 16:46

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Never had to use them on our children :roll: , so why would we use one on our dog(third child) :lol: .

Don't like theese things.

Oscar & hoomans.
Image

Mens sana in corpore sano.

Image
Crazy flying dog,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n5aKvfznuQ

Life of a Labradoodle,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWFkOb39sv4

suebedo
Posts: 1824
Joined: 23 Mar 2013, 23:40
Location: Denham, South Bucks

Re: I saw an e-collar today

Post by suebedo » 13 Jul 2013, 16:50

Oooooh - using on children - teenagers come to mind :lol: :lol: :lol:
Image
Image
Image

Pollydoodle
Posts: 2229
Joined: 10 Sep 2010, 18:36

Re: I saw an e-collar today

Post by Pollydoodle » 13 Jul 2013, 18:18

Good on you for posting about it that is what this forum is for.Good ole open discussions along with some laughs.

I don't like them. What irks me these days is that the Electric Collar is now called an e-collar as if to make it sound ok or less barbaric .... Wish that 'certain dog trainer' that seems to advocate them rather frequently would try one on his neck. Could be there are very rare circumstances that an owner think it is the absolute last resort. I could not use it.

suzi23173
Posts: 1016
Joined: 22 Dec 2012, 15:40

Re: I saw an e-collar today

Post by suzi23173 » 13 Jul 2013, 18:57

If you look on youtube there are vids of teenage kids trying them out. They are quite funny but its all very well as they can take them off and know that the shock is coming so its not the same as it is for a dog. Its obviously quite unpleasant.

When electric shocks are applied to humans to get a required response it's called torture. :evil:

With an electric fence once you realise what it is you can avoid it so it's not the same.
When they sell them they use all sorts of language to describe them that avoids saying what they actually do. I am sure people really believe its ok. I find it astounding!
A couple of people round here have the fence collars and they do work. The dogs concerned are quite ferocious so its quite scary and you have to be quite brave to walk past and trust they won't cross the invisible line.

It doesn't teach the behaviour you want it just punishes the unwanted behaviour- not an intelligent way to treat an intelligent creature.
Image
Love,
Suzi and Tess.
xxx

Post Reply