Annual injections?????????

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Doodle Dee
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Re: Annual injections?????????

Post by Doodle Dee » 31 Dec 2013, 08:16

that aside -I don't understand research or anything - how do you train your boarders to agree to this! No vaccs no boarding.

My step=mum died yesterday and I had to ask my boarders to have Lulu for a while and she said yes (for an extra £5 as it is bank holiday - but that's another story) but I was in a rush for Lulu to go somewhere nice and then she trusted but the boarder knew that Lulu was up to date - if she wasnt what would I have done - it was an easy transition for Lulu (as she loves it there)

So unless your boarders or any boarders (or you are lucky and don't need them) know all about this research - we are all stuck!
Lulu & Dx

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Jay128
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Re: Annual injections?????????

Post by Jay128 » 31 Dec 2013, 08:45

Thank you one and all for your responses they are much appreciated. :D
I will speak to our vet about the trip we are planning and the web site link is fab, hubby and I have already been having a look. I want to try and deal with it so he doesn't think it's to much hassle to take her as our last holiday by the Loch in Scotland was fab and she loved it, being with us all the time and she even got used to the kayak. I don't think I could bear to leave her for two whole weeks and she loves the car so the drive would not be a problem.
It's good to get a mixture of opinions and provides plenty of food for thought. :D
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travis
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Re: Annual injections?????????

Post by travis » 31 Dec 2013, 09:03

This is going off on a tangent for which I apologise but..........
we always use the Eurotunnel to cross the channel and the recent fire on the North Sea ferry from Newcastle raised the question - If fire breaks out, would you be allowed to go and get your dog from the car? I very much doubt it.
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Useful information for anyone heading across the channel by car.Driving to Portugal Our Way
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suebedo
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Re: Annual injections?????????

Post by suebedo » 31 Dec 2013, 11:50

Seventiesboy wrote: ......Children have courses and boosters thoughout their development.
Tetanus is required regularly until a certain number have been given...
Influenza should be offered annually to at risk groups.
Etc, .....
I just want to make it clear that I haven't decided one way or the other yet about how many years I was going to vaccinate for - I will talk to my vet and decided later but wanted to add a couple of things to the melting pot. I would stress that I am not medically trained (although a life time of hypochondria has led me to believe that I am "virtually" qualified many times :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ) and that this is my understanding which may or may not be correct!!

Children have a series of vaccinations which give them life long immunity - if they didn't, we would have to be vaccinated as adults for the same diseases (or at least the at risk groups would).
The Flu vaccination is given every year because it is a different vaccination each year based on the current viruses in circulation (based on a bit of guess work I would suspect) - this is not the same as the annual booster for our animals which get vaccinated against the same disease each time.

And finally.... My OH trod on a nail at work (long story why he wasn't wearing his workboots!!) which led to me nagging him about his tetanus as I knew he hadn't one for many years and treading on a nail is the classic injury for tetanus injections as far as I was concerned. He phoned NHS direct who advised him to go to minor injuries for a tetanus - I felt very smug and the "I was right" song was sung. He got to the hospital and left without an injection but with antibiotics. Apparently the current thinking is that tetanus now lasts a lifetime!!!!! My main point here is two medical opinions (NHS direct may or may not be staffed by clinicians but the computer q&a software that they use IS analysed and "created" by clinicians) differed completely on a very simple situation - who do you trust :?:
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Seventiesboy
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Re: Annual injections?????????

Post by Seventiesboy » 31 Dec 2013, 12:56

suebedo wrote:
Seventiesboy wrote: ......Children have courses and boosters thoughout their development.
Tetanus is required regularly until a certain number have been given...
Influenza should be offered annually to at risk groups.
Etc, .....
I just want to make it clear that I haven't decided one way or the other yet about how many years I was going to vaccinate for - I will talk to my vet and decided later but wanted to add a couple of things to the melting pot. I would stress that I am not medically trained (although a life time of hypochondria has led me to believe that I am "virtually" qualified many times :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ) and that this is my understanding which may or may not be correct!!

Children have a series of vaccinations which give them life long immunity - if they didn't, we would have to be vaccinated as adults for the same diseases (or at least the at risk groups would).
The Flu vaccination is given every year because it is a different vaccination each year based on the current viruses in circulation (based on a bit of guess work I would suspect) - this is not the same as the annual booster for our animals which get vaccinated against the same disease each time.

And finally.... My OH trod on a nail at work (long story why he wasn't wearing his workboots!!) which led to me nagging him about his tetanus as I knew he hadn't one for many years and treading on a nail is the classic injury for tetanus injections as far as I was concerned. He phoned NHS direct who advised him to go to minor injuries for a tetanus - I felt very smug and the "I was right" song was sung. He got to the hospital and left without an injection but with antibiotics. Apparently the current thinking is that tetanus now lasts a lifetime!!!!! My main point here is two medical opinions (NHS direct may or may not be staffed by clinicians but the computer q&a software that they use IS analysed and "created" by clinicians) differed completely on a very simple situation - who do you trust :?:
1: children require immunisation while their immune system develops and require boosters periodically until late school age.

2: Five tetanus jabs are required to confer long term immunity.

3: The yearly influenza programme is based upon epidemiological evidence related to predicted virus strain that may be around during the winter. This may or may not be the same as last year as this is not a lifelong vaccine.

4: If your OH has had 5 tetanus then he would not require a booster.

5: Hep B is acyually five yearly booster as antibody titres do drop.

I fully understand that this is a controvertial area of discussion but the evidence for vaccination is strong in animals and humans.
I quoted small pox before.
More up to date perhaps is polio and the campaigns that go on in third world countries against this devastating disease.
Other animals are involved too. e.g rabbits and myxo. Our bunnies are vaccinated, our neighbours were not and died from myxo after infected wild bunnies came into their garden.

PERSONAL CHOICE I know but I am afraid that I must admit to some professional interest here (not with animals) and some scientifically based evidential knowledge.

Please make your own mind up...............I have.
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Bid
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Re: Annual injections?????????

Post by Bid » 31 Dec 2013, 20:32

I just want to point out that I am not suggesting anyone leaves their dog unvaccinated! I think that both puppy jabs and the first annual boosters are needed, but thereafter your dog is probably fully protected without further vaccinations. However personally I am checking that they do indeed have immunity. If they haven't then I will vaccinate.

Re boarding, I am not convinced that kennels and boarders really know what to look for when they ask to see the vaccination records - you need to actually look up the label on a central database to see what the vaccinations contain - you can't tell from looking at the card so showing your dog's record is a bit pointless. If kennels ask for annual vaccinations, then most dogs will no longer qualify :?
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Re: Annual injections?????????

Post by beeeerock » 31 Dec 2013, 20:43

Coming back from a month on the beach, I see this discussion has emerged again. I agree with Seventiesboy - immunizing is the right thing to do for your dog AND the dogs your dog will meet. The only proviso I make to that statement is simply that we need to do our own research as to how often re-immunization should be done. Vaccines provide protection for different time spans, depending on what is being protected against.

Case in point is the flu shot... yes, there is some crystal ball gazing done in advance to decide what strains are most likely to emerge, but the protection doesn't last very long either... to the extent that you don't want to get the flu shot too early as it might not protect you if you're exposed to the virus much later in the season.

There are *some* vet clinics who send out reminders for shots on an annual basis, without apparently recognizing that not all vaccines require annual boosters (if any). It's a money-making scheme in my opinion and yet another case of 'buyer-beware'. So I would suggest that the injections be done, but on the time interval recognized by the true professionals in the field.

techiebabe
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Re: Annual injections?????????

Post by techiebabe » 01 Jan 2014, 20:59

I didnt vaccinate my greyhound but do for my doodle, let me explain:

Cray (greyhound) came to me age 4 having been vac'd every year as he was a racing dog. A relative used to be a vet and she said that vacs last longer than a year but obv the companies dont want to test for that or guarantee that, they want your money! So I presumed he had immunity. I ensured my insurance provider didnt insist on annual vacs (most do) and in hols he went back to the greyhound rehoming kennels who also didnt ask for vacs. (Obv if hed got parvo the insurer wouldnt pay, but they werent about to refuse payment on eg cancer because of no vacs. Whereas some companies can say you broke their terms and cancel your policy rather than paying out. So, beware!)

When Cray was 12 the insurance co changed policy; now they wouldnt pay out on non vac'd dogs. So I got him titre tested. He score fine, especially high for parvo. And a titre test should be accepted by kennels and insurance as proof of immunity. BUT it cost more than vacs would have. So if you dont want to vac because of not wanting chemicals in your dog, fine. If it is a cost thing, probably cheaper to get it done!

My vet had actually never done one before & had to find out procedure, and the cost from the lab, although she was happy to do it. Be aware that some vets will just tell you to get the vacs - you might have to persuade them!

Also I was told that for Cray to score so highly (well) on parvo meant he was constantly making the antibodies so he must constantly be exposed to it...

When I got Commodore, who is now 8 months, of course I vaccinated. He would otherwise have no immunity! While waiting at the vets I heard the staff talk about a litter of puppies with parvo. All very sick. One died. My vet was sad.

Knowing what I do now, my plan is to vaccinate until age 3 or 4, then titre test annually and vac anything for which he has low immunity.

I dont think Id put it down to trust again. But if you titre test, and it shows no need for vacs, there's your answer, and evidence for kennels & insurance.

That said, some kennels require jabs for kennel cough (even tho the vet said that it doesnt always work, just reduces the effects if they do get it), and international travel needs rabies shots. I dont think you can avoid those.

Hope that helped.

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Bid
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Re: Annual injections?????????

Post by Bid » 01 Jan 2014, 22:02

Just a point re the costs - there are now in-house tests available rather than vets having to send a sample to a lab, so the costs should be a lot cheaper (around £12-£20 or so I am told - that's with Vaccicheck)
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Liz!!
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Re: Annual injections?????????

Post by Liz!! » 01 Jan 2014, 23:36

Techiebabe - would you mind giving me an idea of how much the tests cost?
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techiebabe
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Re: Annual injections?????????

Post by techiebabe » 02 Jan 2014, 15:58

Bid wrote:Just a point re the costs - there are now in-house tests available rather than vets having to send a sample to a lab, so the costs should be a lot cheaper (around £12-£20 or so I am told - that's with Vaccicheck)
Oh, thanks, that is really useful! I'll ask my vet about it (out of interest, as C still needs his boosters at this age).

techiebabe
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Re: Annual injections?????????

Post by techiebabe » 02 Jan 2014, 16:02

Liz - I paid about £80 which is their standard £40 vet consultation and £40 lab handling and analysis fee.

My vet does cost more than some others around but they are really good. Having said that, they hadnt been asked to do titres before, like I said.

This was last spring, so hopefully as Bid says there are cheaper options now. Id still get charged the consultation fee though so it wouldnt be *much* cheaper.

Pollydoodle
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Re: Annual injections?????????

Post by Pollydoodle » 14 Nov 2014, 21:15

Adding to an old post but I am scratching my head over this subject again of 'boosters' or annual injections which is usually for lepto.most times and thought I would share publication I found interesting by M J Day

http://www.wsava.org/sites/default/file ... nation.pdf

Pollydoodle
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Re: Annual injections?????????

Post by Pollydoodle » 14 Nov 2014, 21:18

*groan* :roll: thought I had made up my mind but since reading further elsewhee and the relative near by farms ie must be rats about hmm maybe it is wise to get the booster after all.
Pity my vet here I come with a zillion questions :?

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Bid
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Re: Annual injections?????????

Post by Bid » 14 Nov 2014, 21:42

I read that and I find this paragraph disturbing.....

"Therefore, the veterinary surgeon may still choose to vaccinate any dog or cat annually within the context of an annual health check, but the use of fewer components on each occasion will increase the safety of the procedure. this practice is unlikely to require informed client consent as there are now a number of vaccines to choose from with suitable authorised revaccination intervals. it is to be anticipated that further product developments are to follow and that these will give veterinary surgeons even more scope to administer vaccines in accordance with
guidelines advice. in the meantime, for the few remaining points of disagreement, it is clear that the ultimate decision rests with the individual veterinary surgeon"

Errrrr - no! Informed client consent is certainly required, and the ultimate decision rests with the owner, not the vet!
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