Generation Help Needed

General discussion on all labradoodle-related matters - anything not otherwise covered by specific forums on the site.
Andrew
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Joined: 07 Oct 2006, 08:40

Generation Help Needed

Post by Andrew » 01 Nov 2006, 21:31

This has probably been discussed before, however I just want some clarity!

I thought if a poodle and a Labradoodle are mated the offspring is an F1B??

As I am getting very confused wentwood livestock say on their website

F2 puppies which is an F1 put back to a poodle

And they also state they are a specialist labradoodle breeder and can offer a wide variety of coats and sizes of doodle. Does this sound like a specialist breeder who doesn’t know how to calculate the generations???

yoz1881
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Post by yoz1881 » 01 Nov 2006, 22:05

Andrew,

You are right, they are wrong I believe

angela
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Post by angela » 01 Nov 2006, 23:10

I am to understand that my Doodle is a F2 from F1 labradoodle mother and father

DizzyDora
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Post by DizzyDora » 01 Nov 2006, 23:56

This has probably been discussed before, however I just want some clarity!


Hi Andrew try this site it explains the gens

http://www.goldendoodles.com/generations.htm




DizzyDora & Kona who is a F2b

KJ
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Post by KJ » 02 Nov 2006, 10:12

Dizzydora, Kona is fantastic. Apart from having a lovely coat she looks as though she has a wonderful, cheeky personality. How do you work out the generation thing to get an F2b? Is that an F2 crossed back to a poodle?
KJ

LouBeale
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Post by LouBeale » 02 Nov 2006, 10:32

IMO, any doodle going back to a poodle, the offspring will be F1B as should only move on 1 generation from the lowest. Poodle or Lab backcrossing takes the 'F' factor back to a 1.

There are many differing opinions on this and I agree it can make things very confusing. :?

As long as the breeder includes the 'F' factor for all the labradoodles listed on the pedigree then people should be able to work it out for themselves and at the end of the day, they are still labradoodles and wonderful (all of them). :lol:

LouBeale
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Post by LouBeale » 02 Nov 2006, 10:34

KJ wrote:Dizzydora, Kona is fantastic. Apart from having a lovely coat she looks as though she has a wonderful, cheeky personality. How do you work out the generation thing to get an F2b? Is that an F2 crossed back to a poodle?
To get and F2b you would be crossing an F1 x F1b = F2b. Hope this helps.

Sharon
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Post by Sharon » 02 Nov 2006, 12:08

KJ wrote:Dizzydora, Kona is fantastic. Apart from having a lovely coat she looks as though she has a wonderful, cheeky personality. How do you work out the generation thing to get an F2b? Is that an F2 crossed back to a poodle?
I bred Kona, she is a stunner isn't she ? 8)

Her father is an F2, mother a standard poodle.

clarejacksonuk
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Joined: 10 Jul 2006, 10:09

Post by clarejacksonuk » 02 Nov 2006, 12:32

Hi Andrew,

as a labradoodle owner and a biologist I think the following is the case

The F means Fillial ( generation) so an F1 is the first litter of puppies to be produced from labrador and a standard( usually) poodle.

An F2 is where two F1 labradoodles are crossed

Where a b follows the generation number this means that there is a backcross in other words a labradoodle is mated with either a standard poodle (common) or a labrador ( less common)

So an F1b is a pup produced from the mating of a 1st generation labradoodle and a standard poodle

I think the breeders backcross toi maintain hybrid vigor and to try and aim for the non-shedding characteristic of the poodle. We have an F5b ( poodle backcross) and he looks more like a standard poodle, but sheds, unfortunately, like a labrador

Hope this is helpful

Clare
dougal the labradoodle terror of aldenham school

KJ
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Post by KJ » 02 Nov 2006, 12:39

Ok,so to confuse things further, what would mother F2 x father F1b be!!!!!!

......thats what my pup is!!!!!!! :lol:
KJ

LouBeale
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Post by LouBeale » 02 Nov 2006, 12:41

F2b

KJ
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Post by KJ » 02 Nov 2006, 12:48

Thanks.....was becoming rather confused!!!! :roll:
KJ

DizzyDora
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Post by DizzyDora » 02 Nov 2006, 18:39

KJ sorry for the confusion I may have caused

O.K. I apologize for reopening that can of worms unintentionally
I was only trying to help Andrew with a link I had seen ages ago!
That obviously I had not read!
:oops:

I put F2b as that is what I have always believed Kona to be & I am often
asked what gen she is personally I don’t have a problem with her being F1b
or F2b BUT I do always point out that Kona is a backcross to a standard poodle
mother and F2 labradoodle father. My ideal when I was looking for a puppy was
to have a curly coated & hopefully low shedding labradoodle and to get that I
went to a breeder that was backcrossing her litter & although there is no
guarantee with any labradoodle litter there is slightly more predictability with
a backcrossed litter I was very lucky and got exactly what I wanted. :lol:

So IMO I am the very lucky owner of Kona….. and to all those of you
who kindly sent me pm’s regarding Kona’s Fate…. :lol:

Sorry but Kona is NOT being rehomed as a result of her not being quite
what I thought she was.. To me she’s A1 if not F2b……. :lol:

LouBeale
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Post by LouBeale » 02 Nov 2006, 19:30

Of course you have not opened a 'can of worms' by any means.
We all love our doodles for whatever they are. Your Kona is absolutely gorgeous. I think what Andrew was trying to establish is how the generations are worked out. It is very misleading and there are many different opinions out there, but at the end of the day a doodle is a doodle and they are all fabulous in their own right.

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Fiona
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Joined: 24 Feb 2006, 00:01

Post by Fiona » 02 Nov 2006, 20:43

Hi Andrew,
yes this new? breeder does not seem to know what they are doing with reqard to the generation listings.
It was a common occurence until three years ago when I started to educate breeders what the puppies generation should qualify as. but as there are so many people purporting to be breeders of Labradoodles due to the demand, they are often unaware of what generation the puppies are that they are breeding,

I only hope the dogs they are using are not related, and are healthy good breeding stock. As in all things a little knowledge is a bad thing and will cause problems further down the breeding line of the Labradoodle.
I do not like this practice of selling a bitch puppy on breeding terms and having it back for several months to produce puppies, It would seem the only reason for this is to make money without keeping ownership of the bitch. I would never ask anyone to except this sort of agreement when selling a puppy and I am surprised some people will agree to this.
I would think the puppies are well looked after but its a shame they are all part of a production line .
But if you are not going to breed with the puppy later on it does not matter what the generation is.
Fiona
Cotswould Labradoodles

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