Emily still nipping

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Emily doodle
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Joined: 26 Feb 2016, 22:56

Re: Emily still nipping

Post by Emily doodle » 29 Mar 2016, 22:36

Anne,

Thanks so much for your reply. It is reassuring to hear. I think she must have realised she had overstepped the mark. A very humble Emily has come out of her crate and fallen asleep beside me on the rug.

When you used to put your dood in the crate did you close it? I had read somewhere not too but if we don't she comes right back out. I was saying to my hubby earlier that she definitely feeds off the kids energy. I feel for them too because they can't even walk into the room without her making a dive for them.

Trainer is coming back next week. I'm now a bit sceptical though after people have said pack leadership is not helpful. It really is a big learning curve!

Gillian and Emily

suzi23173
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Re: Emily still nipping

Post by suzi23173 » 29 Mar 2016, 22:49

Ditto all the above. Anne and Dee are right, doodles do turn into lovely dogs but they are not born with manners and are not biddable as pups- they can be little horrors and its the hard work you're doing now which will get you that lovely adult dog. It is tough but WILL be worth it. They are not for the faint-hearted so don't be surprised she is challenging- I'd be worried if she wasn't.

Even as adults the poodle brain means that they often negotiate with you. They will say "in a minute", "talk to the paw", "what's in it for me?" before they obey because they are so clever. Sometimes she will snuffle my hand to see if I have a treat before she decides to obey.
I think labs can be biddable and eager to please and the mix of the two means they are gentle, good fun and the best company.
I wouldn't be without mine but boy, was the puppy and teenage phase were hard work!
Even now walks are a challenge as we are surrounded by wildlife she loves to sniff out. They do calm down in the house as they age and are quick to learn.

Here's a confession- I was so fed up with Tess as she was an absolute horror that I wished I hadn't had her chipped so I could open the door and turn her out and no-one would be able to bring her back to me. There- I never admitted to that before. It was just for one bad afternoon and I felt really bad and soon changed my mind. You are not alone. Read my old posts and you will see I was just like you.

As I said in other posts to you, it can feel frustrating that there isn't a magic tactic that will turn off the nipping because its so upsetting. Just keep trying until you find a method that works better than others and be consistent and you will soon find she grows out of it. The clapping thing is bound to wind her up- its better to be calm and firm. I must admit- I didn't like to say at the time because you sounded so positive but I didn't like the sound of that trainer as like others said, the pack theory has long been discredited. Take what you are comfortable with from him and don't be afraid to question and disagree. Clapping is quite aversive- you want your pup to know you are kind and gentle, but firm- even if you feel like strangling her!

One thing I found was that there could be no stopping her- once she had started to be bitey the game had to stop because she was too giddy or too tired. It was no use trying to get her to stop and carry on the game as she would just carry on biting. We kept trying time outs and carrying on but she would just start again. Play had to stop and she went into her pen with a kong to calm down. When we learnt this, life got easier.

How you are feeling and how your pup is behaving are totally normal and both are just a phase- you won't always feel like this and she will get better. I promise! xxx
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Love,
Suzi and Tess.
xxx

Emily doodle
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Re: Emily still nipping

Post by Emily doodle » 29 Mar 2016, 23:09

Suzi,

Thank you so much for taking the time to write that reply. I really appreciate all the help and advice I have had on her. I read your old post and have taken hope from it.

I think using time out with the kong might be my next trick. I don,t think we have found what works for her yet...back to the drawing board lol.

Tomorrow's another day so wel will see what it brings.

Gillian and Emily

Ianto!
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Re: Emily still nipping

Post by Ianto! » 30 Mar 2016, 21:37

Hi Gillian,

Sorry I'm late replying - I uncharacteristically had an early night last night! I think all of us with 'challenging' doods have had moments like Suzi's... and I definitely had loads of moments like yours. Our Ianto was so bite-y, he even used to do it on walks... nipping my b*m or the back of my thigh :twisted: Sadly, people we met used to 'advise' things like, "hold his tongue down" or "shove your hand down his throat"... all very confusing and upsetting for new puppy parents. :( I used to despair that he would ever stop. But he did.

He loved (as still does) young children - but because he was so excited, he'd jump and they'd hold their hands up high, and he'd jump even higher... very frustrating. I think the advice for young children is to put their hands under their armpits (to protect them) and to turn away. But I do know that turning away just resulted in a bitten botty.... :?

I used to put Ianto in his playpen and close the door. It was a tall one (from Pets at Home) and not too sturdy, so he couldn't climb it. I also used a dog crate in the front room as I couldn't cope with dragging the pen through when I needed it (!) and, when the pup was tired and so was I, I'd put him in - and fall exhausted onto the sofa for a bit of shut-eye.... :oops: It's amazing how much sleep a young puppy actually needs. My second pup was put down for regular naps (like a small child!) and has benefitted enormously from it (just like a hoom-Mum, I made my mistakes on my first! :D )

It actually helps with combatting separation anxiety if your pup learns to be away from you - even if they're only in the kitchen and you are in the front room or upstairs... I learned the hard way that he needed to be separate from me for a while - when he was little, I kept thinking he would be lonely having left his Mum and siblings...

One thing I have learned only recently... they are much better behaved if you 'ignore' them - just let them get on with things, rather than constantly checking on them and talking to or fussing them... I guess that came from having a second dood :roll: We take them a walk, give them lots of exercise then go to a pub for a drink or a meal, and they settle down by the table and snooze...

It gets better, believe me. As Suzi says, take what you need from the trainer, and question his methods if you don't agree. You will gradually find out what is right for your puppy... My two are completely different characters - just as children are... You'll look back in a few months time and wonder what it was all about. Of course, by then, Emily will have moved on to some other mischief....! :wink:

Anne, ianto & Wyre x

KatyM
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Re: Emily still nipping

Post by KatyM » 30 Mar 2016, 22:44

Such wise words from some very experienced dog-mums!

We too feel a bit fed up with the nipping at times. Winnie is 17 weeks now. I find she will go for quite a few days with no nipping and then have a bad day or two. We try to be really firm and consistent in our response. We used to squeal and stay still but she was excited by the notice so now we say a firm 'no' and stand still, no eye contact. She stops really quickly. We have found she is particularly nippy when we get in from a walk, I'm guessing because she is tired and over stimulated. We settle her down with something to chew and leave her to rest. My 2 year old is still a challenge but I have noticed she is more cautious around Winnie lately, which is a good thing. I very closely monitor their interactions and if my daughter is not listening to my instructions I take her away.

I'm sure things will improve as our pups grow up.

o4d
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Re: Emily still nipping

Post by o4d » 31 Mar 2016, 03:58

Just hang in there. Harvey can be an evil little swine at times with the nipping but I just put him in for nap time affectionately when he does because it normally means he's tired and even if he isn't he'll start to think that I think it means he's tired. He has been a lot better since. The kids who live nearby love him, I feel nervous when they all want to play with him because of the nipping so I have to warn them "he's teething and likes to chew on things sometimes including hands." It doesn't deter them at all but at least I'm protected then as I've warned them. He seems to love them and love the attention and hasn't nipped anyone else yet. It may just be he is only comfortable in nipping people he is familiar with :twisted:

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Bid
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Re: Emily still nipping

Post by Bid » 31 Mar 2016, 08:06

I don't know if this will help, but try to think of the biting as a good thing! It really is, because this is the way a puppy learns what is called "bite inhibition". They learn that biting hurts you, and they learn to stop themselves from biting. An adult dog that has been through this will not bite you when you accidentally tread on them for example - they will spin round mouth open, and their mouth may even go round your leg, but they will have learnt bite inhibition and there will be no pressure. A dog that never nipped as a puppy will not have learnt this, and their instinct will be to bite under the same circumstances. So, hard as it is to go through, you will have a gentle more trustworthy dog at the end of it (and lots of clothes with holes in to remind you of those happy puppy days!).
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jackieholmes19
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Re: Emily still nipping

Post by jackieholmes19 » 31 Mar 2016, 08:20

Bella was a terrible nipper as a puppy. I had constant torn clothes and teeth mark scratches. I really thought it would never end and had never experienced it with puppies before, and I've had dogs all my life. I used to turn my bank on her, but shed just jump up and nip all the time.
But then she just stopped it (growing up I suppose ) and she is now the loveliest dog I've ever owned.
Jackie & Bella
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Pollydoodle
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Re: Emily still nipping

Post by Pollydoodle » 31 Mar 2016, 11:28

Bid wrote:I don't know if this will help, but try to think of the biting as a good thing! It really is, because this is the way a puppy learns what is called "bite inhibition". They learn that biting hurts you, and they learn to stop themselves from biting. An adult dog that has been through this will not bite you when you accidentally tread on them for example - they will spin round mouth open, and their mouth may even go round your leg, but they will have learnt bite inhibition and there will be no pressure. A dog that never nipped as a puppy will not have learnt this, and their instinct will be to bite under the same circumstances. So, hard as it is to go through, you will have a gentle more trustworthy dog at the end of it (and lots of clothes with holes in to remind you of those happy puppy days!).
Nice post Bid. Totally agree.
I still recall collecting pup,she had already learnt to nip on breeder's toe etc with her razor teeth. Pup was also a fly pass and rip clothes sort . Today she has the most gentle mouth around.I have never known her to 'touch' a hand even when taking morsels of food or been accidentally stood on etc.
Hang in there folks , they are not evil thinking four legged monsters , though it feels like it at times!

Ps: the other addition is another matter, near whole hand disappears into his mouth, though gentle you get all the slobber when taking a treat, we have decided his nose is so big he can't see past a certain point to judge distance. Funny the theories we come up with! :roll: :lol:

We5Kings
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Re: Emily still nipping

Post by We5Kings » 31 Mar 2016, 11:44

And another tip, to add to the excellent advice on here, is to clip on the lead and walk the pup away from the situation. We have always used this method and it works very well. If the pup is too excited clip the lead on, say "come on", walk to another room and sit down. When the pup is calmly lying next to you just unclip the lead. It really works. After a while you don't need the lead, Just say Come on and they trot off with you for a quiet time.
We always used the lead for wee time in the garden. Lead off =Play time. Lead on means "focus".So even now Dude knows that lead on means calm time.
If we have a house full of guests I will still sometimes clip his lead on( because he's quite shy) and sit down with him next to me. Then unclip him and he will just doze. Anny

Oscar2011
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Re: Emily still nipping

Post by Oscar2011 » 31 Mar 2016, 23:26

Hi,

Oscar too was a biting nightmare as a puppy, we used a house line for controlling him, meaning he could have freedom but restricted, we could keep him away from the kids and also he could be removed for a time out very easily without eye contact or fuss. For a few weeks the kids wore welly's around the house as Oscar was a real ankle biter :( , he had them in tears on a few occasions. To be honest he had us all in tears, being doggy novices we just had no clue what was happening and how to deal with it, and yes one of the hoomans was stopped from dialing up the breeder to send him back. We decided to carry on and the rest is history :) . I remember how stressful things became though, the hoomans need timeouts too sometimes. We learned lots from puppy classes and lots from watching you-tube training videos, and yes, a lot of the training methods that we have used with Oscar are rarely advocated or supported on this forum but they worked for us and Oscar. No two dog's are the same, similar to children I suppose. Oscar will be 5 years old this year, just can't imagine what life would be like without him. Good Luck, the biting will pass.

Oscar & hoomans.
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Mens sana in corpore sano.

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Crazy flying dog,

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Emily doodle
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Re: Emily still nipping

Post by Emily doodle » 01 Apr 2016, 18:11

Thank you so much for all of your reples.

We are complete puppy novices (in case you didn't know :D :D )so we are feeling a bit lost. Yesterday we did threaten her with going back to the breeders....

I think the sleep thing is worth a try. She has been a bit better today with being put in her crate for naps. Maybe ignoring her a bit more might help too. The temptation to fuss or constantly chat is hard to ignore. We have spoken to the kids about doing this too. Also the hands in arm pits is a good suggestion.

I'm pleased to read that one of you just use NO. The squel/clap/growl thing worked at first but then she just saw it as a game. Maybe a firm no and moving away might work.

Thanks again everyone for your kind words.

Thanks

Gillian and Emily

o4d
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Re: Emily still nipping

Post by o4d » 08 Apr 2016, 14:39

Something important to keep in mind (apologies if someone else has mentioned it already as I just skimmed through the thread again) is if you replace your hand with a toy during nipping to not play with the toy or with Emily. The last thing you want is Emily associating her nipping with getting play time. If you replace with something she is allowed to chew, make sure not to play with the toy or play with her.

- this helped a lot with Harvey, we were doing this wrong at the start until someone mentioned to us then it seemed so obvious!

Emily doodle
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Re: Emily still nipping

Post by Emily doodle » 15 Apr 2016, 20:20

Thanks again everyone. Another couple of weeks on we are still in the same place.....

I do wonder if we are not being firm with the no more play. It's tricky when it's the kids she nips who haven't necessarily been playing with her. Would you recommend just putting her in her crate following this kind of nipping every time? How long for?

Gillian and Emily

Doodle Dee
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Re: Emily still nipping

Post by Doodle Dee » 16 Apr 2016, 03:33

I wrote a post on here about nipping and tiredness last week. I saw first hand with my daughters pup. It was looking like turning into a manic pup including rather frightening growls. For a tiny pup it looked as if it was just one of those horrid pups. Pups need around 18 hours sleep as a rule of average (we researched it) Obviously Emily is older than my daughters pup but once we managed to get him into a sleep routine he was 100% better. He wasn't crate trained so we put him in his basket until he fell asleep, mainly after a hard play. (He couldn't go for walk yet). Or gave him a Kong smeared with something nice. His seemed to act like a dummy. It appears like children they get overtired.

Also I did give him a short deep voiced no. If he did try and nip me and that worked on him. I only ever used that tone with Lulu if she was doing something really wrong.

Don't despair. Just be consistent in whatever you do/try
Lulu & Dx

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