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 Post subject: Toying with raw
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2016, 11:11 
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As some of you will know we have had various issues with Dude having squishy poo. We've tried many types of kibble over the past 3years and have settled on Canagan( salmon) as the best so far.
Our current issue is that the vet feels Dude is too skinny but when I up his kibble he gets the squits. I'm currently supplementing his intake with raw mince at lunchtime ( I give a third of a standard pack of 20% fat beef mince) He has put on a little bit more weight.
However, I still feel he is producing too much poo. First of the day is hard, then maybe 3 more during the day ( softer)Previous digs did 2poos a day.
Today, he had to have his anal gland emptied ( because he was biting near his tail) Vet says both glands were full but no sign of infection. I said " well I feel it's due to soft poo and that's the result of increasing the food!"
Anyway, I am now thinking perhaps we should go raw? I know many of you are raw feeders. Unfortunately Dude doesn't tolerate any fowl so it would be beef/ lamb/ fish.
My main question is: Which is best, Natural Instinct or Natures Menu? And are they easy to transition to from kibble? Dude loves his raw mince! Are these products "complete"( or do they contain some veg etc?) and will they help him gain weight, if he needs to?( a matter of opinion) Anny


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 Post subject: Re: Toying with raw
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2016, 14:56 
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Location: Reading, Berkshire
Sounds familiar. Stout has natural instinct - I think we worked out it was cheaper than natures menu, he sometimes has the rabbit natures menu. He has the country banquet turkey or turkey and tripe. He is ok with beef, but if he has it for too many meals it seems a bit rich for him. We have to avoid chicken with our little fluff ball, so are a bit limited as some have chicken in (the block ones you can get at pets at home (cant remember brand) say they are rabbit but if you check the ingredients also have chicken in). Our vet seemed to think the food was a good mix (we give him a tin of sardines once a week and he loves veg so gets various bits and bobs extra, he also gets the natures menu beef chews and turkey necks now and then). We swapped him straight from kibble to raw - but we needed to stop him eating kibble so took a bit of a risk! I am too lazy to do the 'from scratch' option.

Don't know about the weight gain - I know Stout was a bit underweight - so we gradually increased his food (was on 250g now on 333g - easy to divide pack!, and weights 30 kg) and he gained a couple of kilos. One of our friends who has an underweight cocker spaniel has not managed to get him to gain weight on raw, he does tend to run around a lot though so probably burns it all off (unlike our slight more laid back lump!)

Just a word of warning - we have found stout really cant eat the working dog range, he gets really bad tummy grumbles - we can only assume it is the vitamin c they add (i think it can be obtained from maize - one of stouts bad allergies). They used to do an introduce a friend offer and get £10 off - if you wanted to give it a try for less, it might be worth it (the friend also gets £10 off :wink: - PM me if you are interested!)

He now only does two or three poos and there isn't loads and they are hard, Chris describes them as 'walnuts'. He has had several anal gland problems but (touch wood) not for ages now

Good luck, let us know how he gets on!

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 Post subject: Re: Toying with raw
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2016, 20:57 
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Mine have been on raw for a good few years now, but I don't feed a complete food so can't offer any personal recommendations. Daisy can't have any chicken (although she is fine with Turkey & duck), and I have noticed that you need to check the ingredients on food really carefully - At least one of the Natures Menu complete lamb foods is 20% chicken!

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 Post subject: Re: Toying with raw
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2016, 21:45 
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Good luck with raw if you go that way. I just wanted to say that although you probably don't want to try a different kibble, I wonder if its the Canagan itself that just doesn't suit him rather than over feeding it when you up the amount and that's what making him soft. I know its a good food but when Tess was on it it was the same for her and her poo was squishy and horrid. I kind of felt it was too rich, but that's not a scientific opinion- just a feeling. I hope you sort him out what ever route you take. Tess is very happy on Naturediet which is wet but not raw. I hope you get it sorted for him. xx

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 Post subject: Re: Toying with raw
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2016, 22:36 
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Joined: 22 Aug 2013, 20:05
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Thankyou all. Lots to think about.
Like you Michelle I would have to go for a complete meal but as Bid says I would need to make sure there were no traces of chicken!
As regards the Canagan I have to say, if I give the recommended amounts the poos are fine. I agree Suzi, it's a rich food. It's when I try to give more that the troubles start :roll:
Dude is a very hungry type of dog. He would eat and eat if I let him but he just can't absorb extra food! We've tried many types of kibble and he always scoffs the lot ( not at all discerning!) I feel that now it's time to try raw, although it's a bit scary!
I will get my head around it while we are in Cornwall and decide when we return ( I have PM'd you Michelle, but having not done this before I'm not sure if it worked :roll: ) Anny


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 Post subject: Re: Toying with raw
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2016, 00:16 
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Joined: 03 Nov 2006, 20:30
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Location: South Dorset
Tbh having a dog with food allergies I find it a lot easier to DIY raw food, so I control exactly what is in their food. I took a course and go into it in a bit more detail, but basically all you need to do is give between 2% & 3% of their bodyweight daily (depending on how active they are). Of that amount, 80% should be meat, 10% bone, and 10% offal ( a mix of liver & kidney). As mine are fine with duck I can get their bone sorted with a duck wing a day, and a few grams of lambs liver from Tescos sorts out hte offal, and then all I have to get is some mince which I order from Manifold Valley Meats on a monthly basis (the dog have a freezer out in the garage for their food.)

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 Post subject: Re: Toying with raw
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2016, 10:21 
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Joined: 22 Aug 2013, 20:05
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Can I ask Bid, do you give veg? I mean as part of the mix with the meat? I don't have a chest freezer so if we go with raw I will probably start with complete meals. To be honest I don't know if Dude can tolerate duck, turkey etc. He can't tolerate chicken so our other vet ( there are 3at the practice) said to avoid all fowl. I need to sit down and do the sums. Anny


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 Post subject: Re: Toying with raw
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2016, 18:06 
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No, I don't give veg. Poppy won't eat it, and Daisy & Beam get loose poo when they have it. Sometimes when I decide Beam has to lose weight I cook up a batch to keep him full on his diet meals .

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 Post subject: Re: Toying with raw
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2016, 00:22 
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Joined: 10 Sep 2010, 18:36
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Aghh! My post disappeared. Short version:why not try Naturediet ( tray) as 1 of his meals may help add weight whilst you decide.
For raw, I've ended up buying fresh meat from Aldi and our butchers' do dog mince ie lites/offal so I mix that in sometimes and this keeps cost down too.
As for fruit /veg mine love it both raw and slightly cooked so guess depends on the dood.
Good luck what way you go.


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 Post subject: Re: Toying with raw
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2016, 08:12 
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Pollydoodle how to you get the calcium in the diet - do you also feed bone?

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 Post subject: Re: Toying with raw
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2016, 10:47 
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This is all so helpful and interesting. I must admit I'm wondering how I would do the bone element if I did the "do it yourself" method. It can't be chicken wings and I don't know about other fowl. Interesting that the butcher could make up some mince with offal added. I don't relish the thought of chopping up liver! I'm still thinking it through. I still think the complete raw meals might suit us best. And now that 2of you have recommended naturediet as a possible bulking lunch I might try that( I realise it isn't raw) We are VERY lucky that Dude isn't a picky eater. He will try anything ( apart from cucumber! :roll: ) After all,the main aim is to find Dude a way to put on some weight without upsetting his Tum.
Something else: we go away, with D, several times a year and it wouldn't always be practical to take frozen food. Can we switch back to kibble on those occasions?


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 Post subject: Re: Toying with raw
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2016, 13:26 
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Bid wrote:
Pollydoodle how to you get the calcium in the diet - do you also feed bone?

Thanks Bid, :D greatly appreciate you asking as i oscillate between confident they get all they need to mild panic i miss something. For calcium they get wings or lamb neck, rib bone or chook carcass. For some reason the drumstick bone pieces started to come back up at 2a.m. so darn nuisance to debone.They also get periodic massive marrow bone to gnaw. Whole egg every so often
I was not giving daily calcium and still wonder if that is ok. :?
I more or less guage but what comes out the other end


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 Post subject: Re: Toying with raw
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2016, 13:38 
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Anny , i started on premade after trying the wings then i got fed up with that for various reasons and liked the idea of feeding free range etc though these days I opt for convenience beside free range chooks.

On the premade , i think Bid, already mentioned beware read the ingredients eg rabbit -many add chicken and so on. Same, one of the trays I used to buy I thought nicer than Naturediet but they rebranded and discovered the mix etc. Makes me furious as is pure money making,

If was me going away I would feed Naturediet as opposed to kibble but personal choice really


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 Post subject: Re: Toying with raw
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2016, 17:12 
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Joined: 22 Aug 2013, 20:05
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Thanks Pollydoodle, today I was planning to work on catching up with emails/phone calls, getting on with decorating the sitting room and cooking the wind fall apples,but guess what, the Dude food research took over :lol:
These doodles are time consuming!As my Mum used to say "who wants to do housework when there are dogs to tend to!!"
Anyway, has anyone out there heard of, or tried Basil's dog food? It's a raw complete product and reads v well. When we get back from hols I think I will order some Natural Instinct and some Basil's to get us started.
Anny


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 Post subject: Re: Toying with raw
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2016, 23:24 
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Joined: 24 Aug 2010, 18:16
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Location: Reading, Berkshire
We looked at basils - but one of the potential things that caused stout issues was broccoli, which is in basils (now in his natural instinct, but he seems ok with it now)

We take raw food when we go away, but buy turkey mince to top up if necessary. We also check for raw food suppliers before we go away in the caravan for longer than a week, and give them a call to ask what they have in/ if they will get turkey in for us

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