Looking for a dude for our dood Winnie

Use this area if you are thinking of breeding from your dog and are looking for a suitable 'partner'!
gardnerk
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Re: Looking for a dude for our dood Winnie

Post by gardnerk » 02 Feb 2008, 19:50

Sounds like an inoffensive question with a worrying reply.
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wissymo
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Re: Looking for a dude for our dood Winnie

Post by wissymo » 02 Feb 2008, 23:41

A very worrying reply!
there is no point having nice pictures and websites if thats the reply you get when you show an interest in the pups!!!!!!
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Barb
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Re: Looking for a dude for our dood Winnie

Post by Barb » 03 Feb 2008, 00:13

DaisyDoodles wrote:
dollydoodle wrote:Congrats on the litter of stunning cream doodles. Can you tell us what the father and mother's hip scores were please?
Why?
It was mentioned in this thread that both parents were booked in for their hip x-rays so, as far as I can see, Dollydoodle asked a perfectly reasonable question.

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Barb
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Re: Looking for a dude for our dood Winnie

Post by Barb » 03 Feb 2008, 00:55

Having looked back through Sue's posts I can see that Sprocket has a hip score of 2/2. :mrgreen:

dollydoodle
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Re: Looking for a dude for our dood Winnie

Post by dollydoodle » 03 Feb 2008, 10:44

I admit I was bit down at the reaction from Daisydoodle, I read the sticky on breeding and assumed that the breeders would be open about the age of the mother and the testing done. I thought the whole point of testing was to see if the dogs should have puppies, not breed first and test later but Im not a breeder and I dont really know. So no offence please!

MIL has looked back through the breeder's posts and thinks Winnie is a little too young and was not happy at the answer to my question so she will looking elsewhere.

I wonder if Daisydoodle didnt realise quite how confrontational the "why" looked, its easy to get things slightly wrong when you are not speaking face to face. Im sure if we had chatted things would have gone better.

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cades1066
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Re: Looking for a dude for our dood Winnie

Post by cades1066 » 03 Feb 2008, 12:59

well im sprockets mum and his hips are 2/2 and he is a fantastic dog much the same is winnie she was booked in to her xrays etc but then came into season and also a dog would be breed from in the wild at 6mth as long as the vet has assured that the dog is fit and well in her well being and other checks winnie will have her hips done as soon as the pups have gone.

well good luck in your finding a doodle on here and watch out for breeders that say on dog belongs to one bitch when in actullay they dont they are moving sick pups from breeder to breeder which is not good at all so cheap pups are not always good pups make sure all parents can be seen and you can meet any other pups from litters to give you idea of temperment.
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DaisyDoodles
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Re: Looking for a dude for our dood Winnie

Post by DaisyDoodles » 03 Feb 2008, 13:12

dollydoodle wrote:I admit I was bit down at the reaction from Daisydoodle, I read the sticky on breeding and assumed that the breeders would be open about the age of the mother and the testing done. I thought the whole point of testing was to see if the dogs should have puppies, not breed first and test later but I'm not a breeder and I don't really know. So no offence please!

MIL has looked back through the breeder's posts and thinks Winnie is a little too young and was not happy at the answer to my question so she will looking elsewhere.

I wonder if Daisydoodle didn't realise quite how confrontational the "why" looked, its easy to get things slightly wrong when you are not speaking face to face. I'm sure if we had chatted things would have gone better.
My apologies if my one word reply offended you, it was a genuine response if albeit brief, and I hope you find a suitable seller of doodles for your MIL soon, however as barb stated in a previous post Sprocket has a score of 2/2, we do not have Winnie's score at the moment however her parents/grandparents all had scores of less than six, she is only 20 months old and this was her third season. Perhaps we are a bit too protective of our pups, there are certainly unscrupulous breeders who may not have any ethics regarding the well being of puppies produced from unsuitable parents, we do not fall into that category. Thanks for your MIL scrutinising my previous posts, I did not post the link to the pictures in an effort to 'sell' our pups, perhaps you may have misread the situation regarding any that may become available, at the moment that is certainly not the case and should any be offered for sale then we would need to meet the prospective owners on more than one occasion to ascertain their suitability, likewise potential owners can ascertain our suitability with regard to us having reared our pups in our home as home bred companions, we are not commercial breeders and wish not to be associated with the term 'breeder' this implies that we may only be interested in selling and showing for financial gain, we are not puppy farmers, our interest is in producing the finest English Labradoodles possible, note my reference to 'English' as there are real differences being produced in this country at the moment (I recently saw a 'Labradoodle' with long Spaniel ears) our dogs will only be mated with dogs that we feel meet this criteria. This forum is in danger of becoming too full of so called experts, we are all interested in the development of the Labradoodle and these 'experts' are in my opinion losing focus on what discussion forums are about, however, we will try not to be bigger than the subject.

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amber
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Re: Looking for a dude for our dood Winnie

Post by amber » 03 Feb 2008, 16:15

[quote="cades1066"]well im sprockets mum and his hips are 2/2 and he is a fantastic dog much the same is winnie she was booked in to her xrays etc but then came into season and also a dog would be breed from in the wild at 6mth as long as the vet has assured that the dog is fit and well

Hi all
i am a bit confused here. Are you saying its Ok to breed a bitch on her first season, because they do that in the wild?
Also you say its ok as long as the vet gives the go ahead, but in the wild that wouldn't be the case.
I may just have misunderstood the above, but if not, i would like to say that domesticated dogs are not wild dogs. The whole point of being domesticated is that the dog has an easier, and longer life and is hopefully loved and respected enough to wait until it is at least an adult of 2 years old before breeding.

The least we should do for the welfare of puppies, is to hip score both parents. I feel this is a minimum requirement, and if the bitch concerned got a season as she was about to be Xray, then it would have been the right thing to XRay especially as she was 0nly20 months.

I am by no means an expert, and have bred one litter, but i have learned much from this website, and the people on it, and one of those things was to be responsible, and that there is a right time.

I'm not saying anyone is bad to make mistakes, but knowledge is the key.
The pups a gorgeous BTW.
Amber
Last edited by amber on 03 Feb 2008, 16:26, edited 1 time in total.

dollydoodle
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Re: Looking for a dude for our dood Winnie

Post by dollydoodle » 03 Feb 2008, 16:18

DaisyDoodles wrote:hello, Winnie is booked in for her hip x-ray on the 5th of December, she is an F1 from Foxisle kennels, her dad was Zoflora Rollin Thunder who has a Euro/Swiss background and mum was a black Lab 'Playing For Time' (hip score 3-6) we must meet up sometime soon... oh and she has a scruffy coat on a good day.. :D
Im trying to understand, Ive read the info on hip scores and you add the two together which makes Winnies mums 9 and on the foxisle site it says her dad's are 12. So that means that the hips of her parents are over 6, doesnt it?
Blimey cades, really dont understand the thing about passing pups around, but I will warn MIL about that, although how on earth she would know I havent a clue. Didnt know about vets agreeing that 6 month old puppies would have litters either, thats astonishing.
There is so much worry about Hip Trouble that there is no way that my MIL is going to buy a pup without full testing, Im sure people will understand that.
I apologise to Daisydoodles for thinking that you were advertiing your litter and Im glad you have not taken offence at my question about hip scores.

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cades1066
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Re: Looking for a dude for our dood Winnie

Post by cades1066 » 04 Feb 2008, 12:26

hello agian

all well havent we got our knickers in a twist most people who do bred do it on the dogs 3rd season as did daisy doodles owners i see no problem there i hope every one out there can stop bitchin about everyone else and give advice and be aware that people are not always who they say they are and these big breeders shuld let you know that some dogs dont belong to some mothers and they know who they are as they read these posts dogs being passed from on breeder then to another then being told if you have this bitch and breed from her i want 3 pups back etc also a breeder the same one letting chest infections from three pups into her home and then wanting to let them go on to other people with dogs luckly the lady didnt take a puppy just because she felt sorry for them she left them there people need to open there eyes the world is not always nice and breeders are sometime really not who they seem.
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DaisyDoodles
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Re: Looking for a dude for our dood Winnie

Post by DaisyDoodles » 04 Feb 2008, 16:07

dollydoodle wrote:
DaisyDoodles wrote:hello, Winnie is booked in for her hip x-ray on the 5th of December, she is an F1 from Foxisle kennels, her dad was Zoflora Rollin Thunder who has a Euro/Swiss background and mum was a black Lab 'Playing For Time' (hip score 3-6) we must meet up sometime soon... oh and she has a scruffy coat on a good day.. :D
Im trying to understand, Ive read the info on hip scores and you add the two together which makes Winnies mums 9 and on the foxisle site it says her dad's are 12. So that means that the hips of her parents are over 6, doesnt it?
Blimey cades, really dont understand the thing about passing pups around, but I will warn MIL about that, although how on earth she would know I havent a clue. Didnt know about vets agreeing that 6 month old puppies would have litters either, thats astonishing.
There is so much worry about Hip Trouble that there is no way that my MIL is going to buy a pup without full testing, Im sure people will understand that.
I apologise to Daisydoodles for thinking that you were advertiing your litter and Im glad you have not taken offence at my question about hip scores.
No offense taken here and i'm sorry to be adding to your confusion, I rang Tina at Foxisle last evening as I am not in possesion of Rolo's hip certs, they were promised to be forwarded on to us but I guess its my fault for not ensuring its dispatch, however I agree that verbal hip scores are about as usefull as the chocolate teapot, so being told that a score is better than six now appears to be in doubt. I am reliably informed that a score of up to 15 is acceptable providing that the hips are symetric ie 7,8 , what is not acceptable is a 13,2 result, scores are taken on three parameters and range from 0 to 6 making a possible score of 0,0 to 18,18, we are awaiting the results from Cassies hip x-ray which may include a guide as to its interpretation, I await to be see the outcome.
Millie, our chocolate labrador was bought as a pup from a welsh breeder in good faith twelve years ago with a low verbal hip score of both parents, subsequently we had her radiographed and the vet informed us that in his opinion it was not worth sending the x-rays off for scoring as her hips showed worrying signs, we therefore had her spayed to avoid any unwanted pregnancy, she struggles to keep up with the doodles but still tries her best. We have always kept dogs and have had three yellow Labs in years gone by all of whom succesfully had litters of pups without any known problems and we never had any hip scored, always going by advice from our vet or from the dogs original breeder, we obviously take great care with regards to the health of our dogs, we do this not because we are told too but because we feel its in the interest of the dog so to do, interestingly the Kennel Club will register litters from bitches from one year up to eight years of age with a lifetime maximum of six litters... that might be something worth considering when the future governing body of Labradoodle breeders association is formed. I understand that Lodmore Ted (Cosmo) father to aproximately 50% of the Labradoodles in the UK has never been hip scored, anyone know if this is fact or fiction? purely out of interest of course... regards

Daisy's Dad
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cades1066
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Re: Looking for a dude for our dood Winnie

Post by cades1066 » 04 Feb 2008, 16:53

well said daisys dad i know of labrador breeders in cambs nr huntingdon that have and that do start breeding from a yr then by the time they are 4 and had 6 litters one every season this is acceptable by the kennel club and by people buying the labs and yes they maybe hips and eye tested but it does not make them good breeders in my opinion neither because they have so many does it make them good dog people or people that we should trust.
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Barb
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Re: Looking for a dude for our dood Winnie

Post by Barb » 04 Feb 2008, 18:59

DaisyDoodles wrote:
I am reliably informed that a score of up to 15 is acceptable providing that the hips are symetric ie 7,8 , what is not acceptable is a 13,2 result, scores are taken on three parameters and range from 0 to 6 making a possible score of 0,0 to 18,18,
Scores are in fact taken on nine parameters (eight of which range from 0-6 and one from 0-5) and can range from 0-0 to 53-53.
All results should be assessed on the makeup of the totals not the final score.

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DaisyDoodles
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Re: Looking for a dude for our dood Winnie

Post by DaisyDoodles » 04 Feb 2008, 19:26

Barb wrote:
DaisyDoodles wrote:
I am reliably informed that a score of up to 15 is acceptable providing that the hips are symetric ie 7,8 , what is not acceptable is a 13,2 result, scores are taken on three parameters and range from 0 to 6 making a possible score of 0,0 to 18,18,
Scores are in fact taken on nine parameters (eight of which range from 0-6 and one from 0-5) and can range from 0-0 to 53-53.
All results should be assessed on the makeup of the totals not the final score.
thanks Barb

After returning from a 30 minute conversation with our vet I was just about to try and clarify the scoring method, I am now more confused than ever... it would appear that she regularly sees dogs with scores in the 30's and 50's are occaisionally recorded but she did say that despite her recomending not to submit the x-rays for scoring owners still went ahead, several of the parameters only apply to older dogs such as arthritis and do not show up in a young dog, ...it seems there are some breeders out there that do not adhere to the KC code of ethics after all, regards

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Barb
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Re: Looking for a dude for our dood Winnie

Post by Barb » 04 Feb 2008, 19:59

DaisyDoodles wrote:despite her recomending not to submit the x-rays for scoring owners still went ahead
And so they should :!: :!: :!: It is unethical for a vet to suggest not sending in hip score x-rays and makes a mockery of the scheme as the true picture remains hidden. :evil:

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