Does your dog have hip or elbow dysplasia

An area to discuss any health concerns you may have in your dog or questions about health matters in general

Has Has your dog been diagnosed with hip or elbow dysplasia?

Yes
22
24%
No
69
76%
 
Total votes: 91

User avatar
Bid
Posts: 18722
Joined: 03 Nov 2006, 20:30
Location: South Dorset
Contact:

Re: Does your dog have hip or elbow dysplasia

Post by Bid » 01 Apr 2010, 13:17

It sounds as though Coby is doing really well on his new regime - I'm glad you are feeling more positive too - it takes a while for the shock to wear off doesn't it!
www.dogtrekker.co.uk
Image
Beauty without vanity, strength without insolence, courage without ferocity, and all the virtues of man without his vices - Byron

helja23
Posts: 51
Joined: 24 Mar 2010, 17:28

Re: Does your dog have hip or elbow dysplasia

Post by helja23 » 01 Apr 2010, 13:26

Thanks for your reply Bid. This site has helped alot. I had been gazing throught the threads and saw a 9 month old doodle that looks exactly like Coby but lean and in proportion called Marley. I have posted to find out his weight, diet etc as this will greatly help me stop Coby being tubby which is not good for hips. It helps to hear how other people look after their doodles.

User avatar
KateW
Posts: 5522
Joined: 21 May 2007, 21:52
Location: Cornwall
Contact:

Re: Does your dog have hip or elbow dysplasia

Post by KateW » 03 Apr 2010, 00:38

Figures adjusted again;


Has Has your dog been diagnosed with hip or elbow dysplasia?

Yes [ 18 ]
No [ 57 ]

With the other answers (but ignoring Rosie) it is now

Yes 20
No 91

Katherine
ImageImage
Image
Image

User avatar
KateW
Posts: 5522
Joined: 21 May 2007, 21:52
Location: Cornwall
Contact:

Re: Does your dog have hip or elbow dysplasia

Post by KateW » 08 Apr 2010, 01:14

Figures adjusted again;


Has Has your dog been diagnosed with hip or elbow dysplasia?

Yes [ 18 ]
No [ 59 ]

With the other answers (but ignoring Rosie) it is now

Yes 20
No 93

Katherine
ImageImage
Image
Image

User avatar
KateW
Posts: 5522
Joined: 21 May 2007, 21:52
Location: Cornwall
Contact:

Re: Does your dog have hip or elbow dysplasia

Post by KateW » 09 Apr 2010, 23:48

Figures adjusted again;


Has Has your dog been diagnosed with hip or elbow dysplasia?

Yes [ 18 ]
No [ 60 ]

With the other answers (but ignoring Rosie) it is now

Yes 20
No 94

Katherine
ImageImage
Image
Image

User avatar
Bid
Posts: 18722
Joined: 03 Nov 2006, 20:30
Location: South Dorset
Contact:

Re: Does your dog have hip or elbow dysplasia

Post by Bid » 10 Apr 2010, 00:59

I think we will have another one to add - Waldo has just been diagnosed with HD :( :( .Poor little guy - after his bad start too!
www.dogtrekker.co.uk
Image
Beauty without vanity, strength without insolence, courage without ferocity, and all the virtues of man without his vices - Byron

User avatar
KateW
Posts: 5522
Joined: 21 May 2007, 21:52
Location: Cornwall
Contact:

Re: Does your dog have hip or elbow dysplasia

Post by KateW » 10 Apr 2010, 10:29

Bid wrote:I think we will have another one to add - Waldo has just been diagnosed with HD :( :( .Poor little guy - after his bad start too!
Oh I am so sorry to hear that; poor Waldo and poor Margaret after all that early work to restore him to health.....

Katherine
ImageImage
Image
Image

GUNNER
Posts: 3399
Joined: 22 Mar 2006, 15:26

Re: Does your dog have hip or elbow dysplasia

Post by GUNNER » 13 Apr 2010, 00:02

Crossposted this from DT with kind permission of Carole g, thanxs Carole, brilliant post.

In the light of so many poodle crosses showing symptoms of pain and discomfort in their hip and elbows, there is one thing that I think needs further explanation that I have seen on another forum.
"According to this site, labs and poodles have the same percentage with HD which surprised me - 12%

http://www.offa.org/hipstatbreed.html"

The OFFA statistic refers to Mild, Moderate or Severe HD scoring and equates to a BVA score of roughly 26 and above. While Poodles may produce scores that go well over 25 they may well not display any sign of HD because they are lightly built, I would not like to say whether this is equally true of much more heavily built Labradors Retrievers but many will also not display classic signs of HD (or ED) despite poor scores until their middle years.

What is being looked at here is a roughly 1/5th reporting of joint disease which is the figure I had prior to this poll. These dogs have not just produced a poor hip score for breeding purposes but are presenting with classic symptoms of actual HD requiring veterinary treatment in unacceptable numbers under one year old.

This statistic is very high indeed for an active, young, and charming breed. Why is this?
At this stage all I can do is present you with my experience of this problem over the last few years.
The average presentation of a labradoodle with HD has a high proportion of these 5 points in common, some dogs in fact fulfil every criteria, some only one or two and there are of course a minority that appear with HD with little to explain it but there are very few of those.
1 Hip (and Elbow where appropriate) score documents for both parents were not present or shown or allowed to be properly studied by the buyer (one hip score in fact belonged to a bitch who was 16 years old and highly unlikely to be the dam)
2 Puppies were not available for early viewing or visiting was highly restricted. "Stage managed" was a common complaint.
3 Photographs show no proper soft, dry and supportive bedding for puppies and dam, damp dirty straw/fine sawdust being a common sight, puppies are also reared indoors on immaculate slippery surfaces that offer no grip.
4 Puppies suffered campylobacter/giardia/heavy worm burden or other major intestinal upset in the first weeks (this was very common in the joint disease group)
5 Puppies were a bit underweight for their size at purchase and then allowed to grow overweight. A healthy puppy is a plump puppy without the tell tale pot belly full of worms. A healthy juvenile and adult has a waist and ribs can just be felt.

Obviously these are just my findings, I am in no position to offer a scientific survey but it is all too clear to this forum that there is a major problem with joint disease.

How to tackle it?
The Code of Practice on the UKLA and Doodle Post site offers a great deal of security to the buyer who follows it. Puppies bought from the less responsible breeders may in fact be reared with little or no bedding, suffering checks to growth from parasites, with dams whose ability to feed their puppies is severely compromised by diet and stress and over production not allowing them to recover their own body condition and calcium stores. The buyer should never decide to pay a deposit before seeing the puppies with their dam in very good conditions. It is their duty to examine all health tests and take copies, this should prevent falsification. The lack of openness about pedigrees enables rogues to flourish. Breeders could consider having a microchip reader to hand in order to confirm the health tests they show to the buyers. There should be proof of the visit to the vet and that the permanently identified puppy has been vet checked. All breeders, pedigree and cross breed, are finding that they need to prove themselves to the general public in the light of recent bad publicity.


I'm not convinced that mating two highly mismatched body structures is safe, some labradoodles do not look well made, a chunky body on slender legs, for example. Some matings cannot occur naturally and maybe should not occur at all. In other cases a slimly built mother produces a large litter of heavily built puppies to a stocky dog and there may be insufficient room to carry the puppies or whelp safely and then too much may be done to keep a poorly puppy alive by the well meaning breeder. Breeders should consider that it may be wiser to mate dogs similar in size and physique to avoid the risks of mismatch, just having good hip/elbow scores may be insufficient to protect the puppy, although it is a good start.

It needs to be stated that 80% of labradoodles do not suffer joint problems but this figure needs to be much higher. There is both under and over diagnosis of HD by general practice vets and BVA scoring is strongly recommended.

May I also commend the love and care given to the dysplastic doodles by their owners who just want to see them well again, as do we all.

User avatar
KateW
Posts: 5522
Joined: 21 May 2007, 21:52
Location: Cornwall
Contact:

Re: Does your dog have hip or elbow dysplasia

Post by KateW » 15 Apr 2010, 11:20

Figures adjusted again;


Has Has your dog been diagnosed with hip or elbow dysplasia?

Yes [ 18 ]
No [ 62 ]

With the other answers (but ignoring Rosie) it is now

Yes 20
No 96

Katherine
ImageImage
Image
Image

broadloan
Posts: 25
Joined: 08 Mar 2009, 18:04

Re: Does your dog have hip or elbow dysplasia

Post by broadloan » 16 Apr 2010, 00:24

Gunner, it was interesting reading your five points, because looking back I thinkI can say yes to 4 of them. Sparky always had an awkward gait which we didn't realise indicated a problem at the time, and seemed to have to "haul" his back end off the floor to get up. The puppies were in a shed in a barn on straw and whilst we picked a "lively" puppy at the time, he was taken away for a few minutes from our view and the puppy we then got was a very quiet one. To this day my husband is convined he switched puppies. We wouldn't change Sparky for the world and his hip dysplaxia was diagnosed early due to another injury which has let us address it early on. I would say though that in the past 5 weeks we have changed his diet to a raw food diet and his leg has seen a dramatic improvment, which I have no other explanation for except the new food.

At the time I did ask about hip scoring, but was simply told that he didn't bother as he'd never had a problem before. Were we "green around the gills" ...you bet! However, as a dog walker, I am so aware now of just how many different types of dog have hip problems and according to the therapy centre I attend, it is unbelievably common and they put it down to breeding. This includes pure breeds that have came from "highly reputable" breeders. I am now leg neurotic as I am sure other people with dogs with hip dyslpasia are too. (excuse the spelling errors...I should be in bed........)

User avatar
Bid
Posts: 18722
Joined: 03 Nov 2006, 20:30
Location: South Dorset
Contact:

Re: Does your dog have hip or elbow dysplasia

Post by Bid » 16 Apr 2010, 00:35

Daisy, on the other hand, only fits into half of one of those points! She had a lovely caring comfortable start to life :D .
www.dogtrekker.co.uk
Image
Beauty without vanity, strength without insolence, courage without ferocity, and all the virtues of man without his vices - Byron

User avatar
KateW
Posts: 5522
Joined: 21 May 2007, 21:52
Location: Cornwall
Contact:

Re: Does your dog have hip or elbow dysplasia

Post by KateW » 16 Apr 2010, 10:59

Bid wrote:Daisy, on the other hand, only fits into half of one of those points! She had a lovely caring comfortable start to life :D .
It is very bad luck, Bid. Thinking about this, we have never had two dogs from the same litter but have had two pairs of cats. The first pair we rescued from a semi feral cat; one lived to be 15, the other 19 and the second pair were Siamese, one lived to be 13 and the other 16. They were all treated exactly the same and fed the same diet. All died of age related conditions and none of them had any congenital problems.So I suppose there are elements in all this that cannot necessarily be explained.

Katherine
ImageImage
Image
Image

User avatar
KateW
Posts: 5522
Joined: 21 May 2007, 21:52
Location: Cornwall
Contact:

Re: Does your dog have hip or elbow dysplasia

Post by KateW » 16 Apr 2010, 11:02

Figures adjusted again;


Has Has your dog been diagnosed with hip or elbow dysplasia?

Yes [ 21 ]
No [65 ]

With the other answers (but ignoring Rosie) it is now

Yes 23
No 99

Katherine
ImageImage
Image
Image

Adam Lindley
Posts: 498
Joined: 18 Aug 2009, 08:51
Location: Sydney

Re: Does your dog have hip or elbow dysplasia

Post by Adam Lindley » 16 Apr 2010, 13:06

There is a lot of sense in what Carole has written. The figures show that a problem in the parent breeds hasn't been "bred out" by crossing them.

However the points should probably read "how to spot a dodgy breeder".

Accurate and transparent paperwork has no affect on a dogs health, neither does health testing. Suitability for breeding - yes, health - no.

To suggest that HD has anything to do with whether or not a puppy can be seen by prospective buyers (point 2) is ludicrous.

There still seems to be a significant number of HD affected dogs coming from reputable breeders, so pinning everything on the less than vigilant breeder is very simplistic.

User avatar
Bid
Posts: 18722
Joined: 03 Nov 2006, 20:30
Location: South Dorset
Contact:

Re: Does your dog have hip or elbow dysplasia

Post by Bid » 16 Apr 2010, 22:03

It would be interesting to take this further, and create a more detailed questionnaire for HD - do people think this possible? If we were to do that, what questions would we ask? Can we come up with a list? I would love to collate some sensible data if we could gather some. Some starter ideas for questions ...

Has your dood been diagnosed with HD?
If yes what alerted you to the problem?
At what age?
Has your dood had hips scored? If yes what are the scores?
Were the parents hip scored? If yes what were the scores.
Same question to grandparents.
What gen is your doodle?
What size parents (mini/standard)
Would you say your doodle was heavy lab build or lighter poodle build?
Same question re parents
Your doodle measurements – height & weight
Did you see your puppy with 1 or both parents?
How many times did you visit?
Reared indoors or out?
What bedding for pups?
Any illnesses during first weeks in your home? If so what?
At what age did your doodle reach adult height.
What diet as a pup, when growing up, and as adult?
Any accidents or injuries?


Any more ideas?
www.dogtrekker.co.uk
Image
Beauty without vanity, strength without insolence, courage without ferocity, and all the virtues of man without his vices - Byron

Post Reply